New Generation

Nenji · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:32 am Post subject:

You can argue about it all you want, but if you want X so much then go *play* X. Yes, there are *some* Animalistic Navis, but compared to the humanoid ones there's not a lot. Some people relate well to animals, it's the same in real life; not everyone identifies themself with an animal, having a pet does not automatically make this so. Pretty much all of the Mavericks are Animals, it's part of X's charm but EXE has it's own. Besides EXE already has Viruses, so Sigma doesn't fit in well. Aside from that Navis tend to do what their operators do and tell them and people go "Irregular" all the time, so that doesn't work so well either.

X and EXE aren't as compatible as people think, it's best to keep them seperate and savour the originality.
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Crimson Seiko · Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:02 am Post subject:

You seem to imply that using ANY element from X means you have to use EVERYTHING from X. Yes, there's tons of things in the X series that just won't work well with EXE. For example, Sigma. But there's plenty of X, and maybe even Zero, elements that could go quite well in the EXE series.

But I nowhere said that I think X should be transposed into the EXE universe. A new group of operator-less enemies (not every single friggin navi in the universe) based on animals, like the Irregulars/Mavericks, could be interesting. Introducing some more EXE-itized X and Zero characters (like the series has already been doing), like Axl or X8's navigators or Ciel and so on, could be interesting. Possibly bringing back Transmission's Zero Virus as a key plot point could be interesting. Letting the kids (Netto, Enzan, Meiru, etc.) age to teenage years and allowing some of the more main-character navis (like Rockman, Blues, Roll) receiving some slightly X-esque design upgrades could be interesting.

But... having a Sigma Virus outbreak that turns navis into Irregulars/Mavericks, and Netto and Enzan forming a group of Irregular Hunters to take them down, and the navis begin fighting with humans who have to retreat underground after a space colony crashes into Earth and fills it with toxic gas and Blues getting infected and sealing himself away for 100 years...

No, that won't work at all.
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Unknown Neo · Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:39 pm Post subject:

I have an idea that's kind of like that first part. It doesn't go into some of the things like that underground part.

Crimson Seiko · Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject:

You realize I described plot elements from the X series, right...?
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hobbit_hunter · Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:33 pm Post subject:

Guernsey · Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:53 pm Post subject:

Nenji · Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:40 am Post subject:

I don't actually own a copy of any of the X games as I've never seen them for sale here, only for Rent. I have [No, you do not~] of 1 and 3 but that's it, I hardly can remember obscure references from games I played over 5 years ago or I have *never* played. I listed the two main ones I could think of off the top of my head.

EXE has animal enemies already! Viruses, Gospel, Greiga and Falzar all are based on Animals. So having Maverick Styled enemies wouldn't have so much impact. Beast Spoilers: [spoil:e55c492043]Zoans may take on forms that more resemble Animals, but they're hardly Mavericks[/spoil:e55c492043]. Not to mention that Stand Alone Navis have already been present in all the EXE Media.

Sure, you can take some Elements of X, but EXE already had some of them. I don't oppose change or evolution of the EXE series, but it's not Rockman, X, Zero, ZX or Legends. There's no reason to parallel that storyline when EXE can make it's OWN and unique story.
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Crimson Seiko · Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject:

There's no use in debating this with you anymore when you yourself admitted that you have very little X experience. You just destroyed your credibility.
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**Plantman** · Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:43 pm Post subject:

Alright, let's calm down. I'm afraid HKaizer, you're not looking at the whole picture. I don't think at any time Seiko has proposed for EXE to follow up the storyline of X or any other series. If any, all he has suggested is intruduce 'some' elements from it into the EXE style, not convert EXE to X. Something EXE has done already to one extent or another.

While it's true HKaizer should know all elements of what he's trying to refute to have the proper arguments to do so, I don't think not playing all games makes his opinions lose any validity, especialy if Crimson Seiko didn't take the extra mile in explaining the elements that compose his opinions.

Remember many people in these forums have only been exposed to EXE, and rather than brush his opinion away for his lack of playing the X games, you could very well take it upon yourself to enlight him about the subject.
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Crimson Seiko · Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject:

Thing is, I shouldn't have to educate my opponent on the subject we're debating about. He shouldn't have reacted so sternly about his opinion to keep X out of EXE if he didn't know much about X to begin with, and I simply don't feel like there's any point in continuing this discussion with him if he's basing his opinion on such limited knowledge. So, I'm done.
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**PlaguedOne** · Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:52 pm Post subject:

**Sol** · Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:54 pm Post subject:

**Plantman** · Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject:

Indeed, you -shouldn't have to- but you might very well could. After all, you leave a debate with a better aftertaste when you help someone else to see your own points rather than turn around and do the 'I won't play this anymore' game.

This is a forum and it's really hard to grasp some things the first time, I think if you have time to share and debate your ideas and opinions of what you'd like EXE's new generation to be, it won't hurt to go the extra mile and fully explain your vision and educate others in the process. Helps to make people see your own views more clearly. Not everyone in this topic/forum is your enemy in a discussion, and would help greatly to bring your point across if you try to make sure everyone -even those that have not played the X games- can understand your view. Makes for a more leveled debate after all.
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Crimson Seiko · Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:43 pm Post subject:

Fine then, but I can't help but feel like I'm going to be repeating the same point over and over.

HiKaizer, the X series takes place in a war-torn world populated by humans and Reploids, a kind of robot with free-will. The race of Reploids was created from X's design. X (or more properly Rockman X) was created by Dr. Light, but he sealed him away in fear that the world wasn't ready for X. Dr. Cain found X's capsule and released him, and proceeded to use X to create the Reploids.

However, a virus starts to infect the Reploids, causing them to turn into Irregulars and wage war against the humans. X and partner Zero form a group called the Irregular Hunters to stop the renegade Reploids. Sigma, a former Irregular Hunter, goes Irregular as well and becomes the series's main enemy.

In X2, Sigma's back. A new group called the Counter Hunters is formed to try and hunt down X, and they use the body parts of Zero (who was destroyed in the first game) as bait. And some other stuff. In X3, the enemy is Dr. Doppler, who's under control by Sigma. We learn somewhere between these games that Sigma himself is a virus.

X4 brings over the Repliforce, a group of Reploids that aren't Irregulars but also wage war against the humans, so they become X and Zero's enemies. Colonel and Iris are Repliforce members. Sigma's around there somewhere too. X5 has Sigma threatening to crash a space colony into Earth, so X and Zero race to prevent that by rebuilding a giant cannon. Sigma succeeds and the colony crashes, but he destroys Zero first. In X6, the world is covered with a toxic gas that humans cannot breathe because of the colony crash, so humans escape underground while X deals with a new enemy, Gate. Sigma's still around there too, though, and Zero comes back too, because he never really dies.

X7 brings Axl into the picture, who has the ability to copy Reploid data and transform into them... and X8 introduces Lumine and a new breed of Reploids that use Axl's DNA data stuff to simulate his copy ability. Then there's Command Mission, which I never finished (but knowledge of it holds no relevence to anything I've discussed so far), and the two GBC games (Xtreme in English). Whether or not they're canon is debated by the more intense fans.

Now that you have a good gist of the X series...

I don't think the EXE series should transpose the X series onto it and call it "new." I think certain elements, like Irregular-esque navis, or certain characters like Axl, could be brought over. If there's going to be a new generation, it's most likely going to take place years after the present EXE, and you can't deny there would have to be some kind of huge technological advancement appeal to cause problems, somewhat similar to the Reploid creation and the Irregular virus break-out.

But the argument that we can't have Irregular-esque navis because "we already have enough animals" is stale at best. Since when has Capcom judged their decisions based on what's neccessary? Eight sequels to the first ever Rockman game was unneccessary enough... much less the five other sagas that it evolved into, plus the innumerable other unrelated spin-offs like soccer and racing games.

It's also pretty important to differentiate between game and anime. The game is going to come first, so any big decision like a "new generation" is going to fall into the game premise before Shogakugan can fit it into the anime premise. There needs to be enough for the games (since they collectively have a lot less going on in them than the anime)... and then the anime can squeeze in all the Cross Fusion crap they want afterwards.

So, we know the anime has done the Beast element, calling for a lot of animalistic-navis. At this point, maybe Irregular-styled navis may get a bit redundent. (But so was recycling evil independent navis as Darkloids, Asteroids, and Zoanoroids for three series.) But even though we've had a lot of animalistic characters, excluding viruses (which hardly count since they're just fodder for battle gameplay, not anything powerfully story-driven)... we've been limited to mainly dog-styled and bird-styled (except for navis like Sharkman and Toadman, which apparently don't count). Why can't we have an evil navi team of, say... an owl, a spider, an elephant, an octopus, etc. etc.... to wreak havoc for ONE GAME (not a new breed of navi that will monopolize the universe).

So, point is, if there's a new generation, there's gotta be a lot of NEW stuff going on, and I was suggesting X-elemental stuff (since the series has already been leaning towards X-series stuff a lot here lately). You can't expect them to just age the characters and keep doing the same tired old WWW plot-line for another 5 or 6 games, can you? They need to take a big leap into the future... a big, drastic change, but without losing the core elements and charm of EXE, and at the same time, creating something new and fresh.

And that's exactly the same thing Classic did when it jumped into X. Since EXE started out revolving A LOT around the Classic series, it only seems logical that the next step would be to slightly parallel the X series.

We all know Capcom would rather rehash something good than to come up with something completely and utterly original... otherwise, EXE wouldn't have taken so many characters from the Classic series and ZX wouldn't look like an identical extension of the Zero series. Think about it... would EXE have gotten so popular so fast if it didn't have so many recognizable elements from the Classic series? People already liked Classic, so by "upgrading" it into EXE, it was already familiar and caught on fast.

To casual fans, EXE is quickly losing touch with "true Rockman" and falling back down in popularity... so if we take the familiar and popular elements of X and use them to "upgrade" EXE, it's sure to just boost it's popularity again and remind people that "yes, EXE is Rockman."

Look at DASH... it was far too distant from what people knew and loved about Rockman... it was the first time Rockman ditched it's classic, 2-D platforming gameplay, and other than the star being blue and named "Rockman," it had barely any simularities with the Rockman everyone knew. And DASH only got three games.

Gray17 · Net Savior Joined: 30 May 2005 Posts: 137 Location: USA

To put this more simply:

To the people complaining that EXE shouldn't take elements from X, you're misunderstanding what we're saying. We are not saying that plot, characters, and setting should be transposed into EXE. We are saying that should do the same thing for X as they've done with the original Rockman series. Specifically they grabbed a bunch of character and robot designs, a little bit of backstory, ran off into the night with it, then had fun modifying it. They've already done this to an extent. Colonel and Iris have roots for the characters in X. Zero and his saber have made appearences in the EXE series in some form. The orbital elevator in one episode of Stream was a nod to a recently released X game. People are suggesting just a bit more of this.

They've already burned through most of the robot masters from the original series, definitely most of the good ones. So why not grab a boss or two from somewhere in X to be a new enemy Navi? Want a good Navi for a second to last boss? How about Gate? Why not grab a character like Axl or Aila to become the Navi of a new ally? Need some inspiration for new viruses? Look at the random enemies from the various X games.

We're not calling for wholesale rip off of X, we're calling for more of the same of what we've already gotten.

NetOperator Wibby · Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:19 pm Post subject:

^ :] yup, i agree with everything gray said :] ^
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Nenji · Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:40 pm Post subject:

Uh, I never said I hadn't played any X game, just not all of them. I couldn't play X2 and 5 because I couldn't get my hands on a working copy of them. X7 and X8 I chose not to play as the new style didn't look very appealing to me. So, I've played X1, 3-4, 6 and Command Mission but I do know the vague plots of of those games I haven't played. I came from the X series to the EXE series so don't think I don't know anything about it.

Yes, you can say there are already X references in EXE, there are already X ideas there. However, mostly they're diluted (with the exception of character references, which always make me smile) or wouldn't work in the EXE universe:

Armor Change, limited compared to the flexibilty of Style Change and Soul Unison. If you could change it when you want, well it's just become a more ornate Style Change anyway.

Mavericks: In general too complex to be but losely based on as a character. In which case you've already got Viruses to do so; sure, a few would be reasonable but not the horde of 64+ that the X universe has. Compare Blizzard Buffalo to Freezeman and you'll see how much more complex they are.

Sigma: Done and obvious

Going Maverick: EXE has Dark Chips, so it's already there. However, the idea of something turning people to go evil is hardly an original or recent idea; X just named it Irregular/Maverick.

Maybe an EXE version of Axl would be interesting, because he really doesn't have much of a counterpart in the original series that I know of. But, X and Zero will not have nearly as much impact with Rock.EXE and Blues.EXE already there.
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Gray17 · Net Savior Joined: 30 May 2005 Posts: 137 Location: USA

ForteGS.exe · Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:59 am Post subject:

The only X character that I would love to see in an EXE game would be Vava/Vile. Or any other human looking character.

Crimson Seiko · Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:39 am Post subject:

The X series would also be a good source for female characters (considering the Classic series doesn't exactly have an abundance of them). All Classic really has left are the obscure Kalinka and Plum... From X, we just got Iris, and there's still Alia, Pallette, Layer, Cinnamon, Marino, Nana... and maybe we could even get some from Zero, like Ciel. (I feel like we're overdue for a Ciel EXE.)
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