Okay, seriously, why all the hate?

[Quint]

In case you might not have figured it out, this is a post about Rockman.EXE 4 Red Sun/Blue Moon.

Seriously, I can't help but notice how everyone hates this game with a passion. This game seriously broke some new ground here and tried to do something new...though I'll graciously admit...it has its flaws as well.

First off here's what I liked about the series:

SOUL UNISON!! Yes, that is a huge improvement from the style changes that were dished out. I personally think Soul Unison made more sense since the whole idea behind Rockman was that he could take on the abilities of others. I was a Red Sun player so Fire Soul, Roll Soul and Search Soul were my favorites.

Tournaments! Because Battle Chip Challenge sucked Donkey Balls (Loved Ring though, wish she had been in another game). Everyone wanted to see a Tournament in the .EXE series, well now we get an entire game's worth of Tournaments. Sure there was a bit of a formula to the tournaments (Normal/Hell Navi, Soul Navi, Random Navi) but each match had some interesting stories behind the Navi's (I personally loved Burner Man vs. Fire Man).

NAVIS!! Omigod! There's so many! I've never seen so many Navi's in one game! Both old and new! It was so cool to see all the new Navis (Aquaman, Sparkman, Topman, Burnerman, Videoman, Windman, Searchman, Junkman, Coldman, Kendoman, Shademan + Laserman), and who got to make a return (Fireman, Gutsman, Numberman, Metalman, Woodman, Roll, Thunderman, Blues, Forte). The number of Navis that appear in the other two games afterwords just seem small in comparison. (Not counting Rockman himself there's 21 in Rockman.EXE 4, 17 in Rockman.EXE 5 and 18 (not counting Iris since you don't see her in combat) in Rockman.EXE 6. Not too bad, but all 21 appear in both versions)

Replay Value. Did the game feel a bit short? I thought so too. I was pretty disappointed when I got only 3 Souls on my 1st playthrough...But then I realized that the bulk of the story lies within the tournaments...and the matches tended to change a bit...especially with the Random Navi...Not only do you encounter Navis who you don't commune with but you also meet Navi's from the other version as well...The switcharound order at the Tournament made the replay worth it.

Normal and Hell Navis. Did you know that this is the only version where you get to face them in their normal forms? No Virus attack or anything. It was kind of a nice feel if I may say so. Made those genaric Navis just a bit more important since you would be able to fight them (add those two in the mix and you get 23 Fightable navis).

Roll. Capcom finally got it in their heads to make Roll a fightable character. Unfortunately it only occurs in this game. But still, the Roll Arrows, the Virus Summoning, the hair whip thingy, she was a tough customer.

Duo. Finally a boss who MOVES! One pain in the ass to fight that's for sure, and with his on and off weak spot made him an ordeal to face. Plus, the lack of panels on two rows also made for an interesting challence. On top of that, he left behind some interesting Giga Chips which would be used in later games: Gigant Hook + Meteor Knuckle.

Boktai! Coming across Solar Boy Django in this game was so cool! It was nice to be able to meet him on the net and use his Gun Del Sol. This was the first time we had a crossover like this and I'm glad we had it.


Okay now for the bad stuff...This is what I kinda hated about the two games.

Locations. There's too few! And most of the events involve going around on the net for stuff. What they needed to do was add new locations so that it wouldn't matter as much.

The Lower Level Chips. Yeah, I know...if you miss the chips in Game 1, they become a pain to get in Game 2 and Game 3. Shoulda been an easier way around that than searching through GMD like a madman.

Secret Stuff...Did you know for a fact that if you play through the game four times, you will encounter every Navi from both versions? I will kinda admit, it does get a bit tiring after awhile for two reasons. Reason 1: Normal Navi + Hell Navi scenarios get boring and repetitive after awhile...I swear to God if I have to encounter that Chef boy again I'll rip his balls off!! Ugh! If they were gonna randomize it they should've put in two Normal and Two Hell Navi scenarios for each Tournament. And reason two...Let's just say that I didn't encounter Kendoman until my 4th playthrough...(groan).

Nebula. Having an evil organization is good...but how am I to take them seriously when there's only 2 frickin members. Shademan and Laserman were good, but they needed to add more in the mix. Rockman.EXE sorta fixes that but still...

Dark Chips....This one's kinda iffy for me. I can tell they were trying to take this in two different paths, Soul Unison and Dark Chips. The Dark Chips in and of themselves was pretty good. It was also good that they went for certain chips which only worked when you were dark (and some which only worked when you were light). But I'm guessing that most people opted for Soul Unison instead, better benefits and no HP subtraction. What they shoulda done was have the use of Dark Chips effect the path of the story you take. That might've compelled people to use Dark Chips a bit more.

So that's my take on the Red Sun and Blue Moon games. Share your thought on this little section of the series.
_________________
Mr. 80 SPF Sunblock Wearer: There are 24 hours in a day. You're wearing 80 hours of protection. If the sun fails to go down, you'll be ready. Your coconut-scented forcefield blocks out all the sun's rays, and any stray rays from another sun in another galaxy. 30 SPF? Please! You might as well be wearing cooking oil. So crack open an ice cold Bud Light, Mr. 80 SPF Sun Block Wearer. In fact, crack one open at high noon in the middle of the Sahara Desert.

[Quint]

I know I shouldn't double post, but for lack of an edit button (unless it's hidden somewhere) I'll add this to my things I hated about RME4 games

Soul Unison Elements. Soul Unison themselves was awesome...But their element charge shots were EXACTLY THE SAME AS THEIR STYLE CHANGES. Fire=Firearm, Elec=Zap Ring, Wood=Tornado, + Aqua=Bubble Shot. Now I know that Fireman and Aquaman were designed with those attacks, but Thunderman and Woodman were most certainly not! This reminded me too much of the Style Changes and I wasn't crazy about that.
_________________
Mr. 80 SPF Sunblock Wearer: There are 24 hours in a day. You're wearing 80 hours of protection. If the sun fails to go down, you'll be ready. Your coconut-scented forcefield blocks out all the sun's rays, and any stray rays from another sun in another galaxy. 30 SPF? Please! You might as well be wearing cooking oil. So crack open an ice cold Bud Light, Mr. 80 SPF Sun Block Wearer. In fact, crack one open at high noon in the middle of the Sahara Desert.

[Sketch]

If you need to add something to your post, you can PM an admin or mod to do it.
_________________

[Sketch]

If you need to add something to your post, you can PM an admin or mod to do it.
_________________

[Quint]

Thanks. I'll try to keep that in mind. But I think it might be easier to simply bring back the edit button.
_________________
Mr. 80 SPF Sunblock Wearer: There are 24 hours in a day. You're wearing 80 hours of protection. If the sun fails to go down, you'll be ready. Your coconut-scented forcefield blocks out all the sun's rays, and any stray rays from another sun in another galaxy. 30 SPF? Please! You might as well be wearing cooking oil. So crack open an ice cold Bud Light, Mr. 80 SPF Sun Block Wearer. In fact, crack one open at high noon in the middle of the Sahara Desert.

[mega rock.exe]

Wow. Those are some good points. I agree, the game is good. Free Tournaments. The ability to fight all of the other version's Navis was great. With so any Navis, the best part was a Navi infested Net. The game was great. I don't know why so many people hate.
_________________

[Midnight]

Yes, but put into comparison with the rest of the games, the general consensus is that this was the weakest of all of the games.

I do admit that some of your points hold merit. Souls have a greater tactical edge over styles, by far. I liked seeing Roll as part of the game, and as a navi who doesn't play the role of a background NPC.

However, one of the points that you brought up as a strength many view as a weakness--the tournament structure of the game's plot (and replay value by virtue of the plot). This plot just seemed...really disjointed in comparison to the other games that came previously, and hell, a even with those that came after it. It also was a lot less introspective than some of the previous games, with regards to character develpment--Netto and Rock are definitely focused on, but they have a more in-depth development of their characters by far in EXE 1-3. EXE 4 was a deviation, and with so many characters and so much space to tell the story, there is proportionately less for the other characters, and thus they feel a little less developed than those of the other games as of yet. Plus, having the plot revolve around tournaments makes it feel more like a template with large holes in it for the variations, rather than the smoother plotlines of the first three games.

The chips themselves were a step back, if you take a look at the metagame. In EXE3, there were some dominant folders, but there was a diverse metagame--people built many good folders that were about on par with each other, when looking at a perspective of power level. EXE4, on the other hand, had a select few folders rise to the top rather easily, and the metagame became less diverse because any other folder could not stand up to the power that these select few had in the field of PvP matches.

Those are the two points that stand out in my mind as why EXE4 was pretty bad. Take of it what you will.
_________________
Today, these three players are after Big Bucks! But they'll have to avoid the Whammy, as they play the most exciting game of their lives! From Television City in Hollywood! It's time to 'Press Your Luck!'--Rod Roddy

The Kingdom of Loathing: An Adventurer is You! // I ♣ Seals

Avatar by Spork. I very much appreciate it! <3

[Izumi]

All right, I'll fill in my opinion, point by point. XD

[Izumi]

All right, I'll fill in my opinion, point by point. XD

[PlaguedOne]

[PlaguedOne]

[Elementalman.EXE]

Okay. Like Izu, I'll break down your post and add my two cents.

First of all, not everybody hates the game. You yourself just proved that statement false.

SOUL UNISON
I'll admit, at first glance I liked the idea. However it has alot of flaws, which the Cross System fixes, which makes the system obsolete. Plus, I've found myself weaker in a battle when I use Soul Unions.

Tournaments!
Oh God. Okay, first time through, it was okay, but come on. A tournament takes up alot of time on a game, and there is rarely no plot development until the end. BCC is a tournament, no matter how you look at it. It also Is a good game. However, in the EXE series we weren't expecting a game like that. BCC was just diffrent from what we were used to, it didn't suck. Also, I never wanted to see a tournament in the mainstream of EXE games. Had the game of been released as a gaiden, maybe then it would have been more appealing.

NAVIS!!
Oh god, they just shoved a bunch of random characters into a game, although, that's wha is to be expected from most tourny games. None of the characters were seen for very long so you don't get a very good understanding of them. In fact the only thing I remember about one of the characters is that they were beyond gender, and it wasn't Narcy.

[Roll Soul]

Rather than risk repeating the past couple of posts, I'll just mention what I, personally, found annoying about BN4. I found that it was too difficult to get the items and money I needed, when I needed them. I found money a huge shortage for me with that game, as well as good battlechips. It may've been my own bad luck, my inexperience with the Battle Network series at that point in time, or an unbalanced spread-out of the items through the game. Either way, it was something I didn't really like ^^;

I will agree with the fact that having Roll as an opponent for once was neat (even if I kept getting stalked by her V3 form @_@ ). And there's the fact that I got Roll Soul on my first playthrough, however unrelated to my opinion of the game that may be *snickers*

I also, personally, preferred the Style Changes. And with BN6, I like Crosses. But for 4 (and 5) I never really liked the Soul Unisons ^^; Having to sacrifice a chip that you might need later, plus only a limited amount of turns? Yes, the turns can be increased with NaviCust parts, but that takes up valuable space. I'd rather battle my way through without doing a Soul Unison.

BN4 was an okay game, but my username aside, it wasn't my favorite by a long shot. When it's compared to the other games in the series, point by point, in my eyes at least it just...falls up short.
_________________



| DeviantArt | LiveJournal |

[Rock Miyabi]

I always can't help but laugh when people get so down on one game of a series like this. Yeah, I've noticed that quite a few have had some harsh words for EXE 4, along with X6, among others. I've always been one to put the best game of a series on a pedestal and just say the rest are below it, but saying it's the worst, I can never do that, especially when it's a series I like. Ranking things is a waste of time, just like guys who go around and have to give girls a numerical rank on their hotness. I just don't get it. Aaaannyway...

I for one really did like 4 as a change of pace over the first 3. Souls were so much better than style changes, they felt more in tune with the classic series. I never really felt the need to ever use or change styles in the first 3, but that's probably just me. The 4 main styles just seemed too...plain, boring, I dunno. It's just Rock changing colors and getting a new buster, they aren't as aesthetically pleasing or something. Yeah, stupid excuse, but that's how I feel about them. And I can't really comment on the difference between them and crosses, as I haven't played 6 yet.

I agree with the main negative being that depth in the plot was lacking, because it felt too short. I rather would have had even more random encounters or additional tourneys over the course of one play instead of breaking it up over 3 plays through. It would have given it even more of a global feel than it tried to.

I've never thought any final boss is really harder than the other...generally looking at it, they're all big things that take up their entire side. They're strong. They can beat you up quick, you can beat them up quick, with the right strategy. Get the patterns down, it always seems easier after your first play. I'm really amazed at how hard people think he was. Duo wasn't exactly THAT innovative on the field, but I liked his backstory better than, say Nebula Grey's.

Saying Nebula was a negative? Regal actually had more organization to his group than any of the WWW incarnations! He had tons of faceless gasmasked henchmen!!! HENCHMEN!!! You have to take henchmen more seriously than random original people with vendettas who happen to have customized navis! Wily's really just a nutjob trying to blow up the internet. Regal's not senile and thought much bigger! That proves Nebula was a top of the line evil organization that you have to take seriously! :]

I wouldn't say dark chips are a negative, although yeah, it would have been cooler if it affected the story. That in itself was something new and innovative, and if I ever find another copy of the game super cheap, yeah, I do want to try it using the evil power with low HP to see how hard Duo really can be. True, you don't want to use them your first time through, but that doesn't mean you can't later. Depends on what kind of a gamer you are I guess.

So, in conclusion, sure there are some flaws. But I don't feel like I wasted my money or am so pissed at those flaws that I have to call it the worst battle network game ever. Gaming is fun, so don't hate the game, hate the playa. Wait, what?
_________________
Avatar art thanks to toberboobap, animated gif thanks to Dr. Wily II

[Miyabi on DA] [Ryuusei Pans all in one thread!](Last Updated on 4/6, TRIBE COMPLETE!)

[Nenji]

Actually, I think Souls were a good thing. They had definate cons for their pros, which made them more balanced than Crosses and, especially Style Changes.

As for money, I never had an issue with it. Encounters in the Undernet frequently drop 300 Zenny on Normal and 600 and Hard, with a semi-decent folder it's quite easy to rack up zenny quickly.

But, the game did suffer from a great amount of monotony I'd have to agree.
_________________

Previously known as "HiKaizer"

[HeatShadow]

[Rock Miyabi]

Just because this thread made me go beat Duo again for kicks, I remembered my conspiracy theory reason why people really hate the game: The not so subliminal robovoice message in the Navi Cust music that goes "What's annoying? This is! What's annoying? Thisthisthisthisthis!..."

Those geniuses at Capcom actually subliminally pissed people off, and because of it, many fans now rank this as the worst Battle Network game. Laugh away, but I'm dead serious! Ok, maybe not totally, but pretend.
_________________
Avatar art thanks to toberboobap, animated gif thanks to Dr. Wily II

[Miyabi on DA] [Ryuusei Pans all in one thread!](Last Updated on 4/6, TRIBE COMPLETE!)

[Slifer. EXE]

Is that really what the Navi cust song says?
_________________
98% of all teenagers have injected a mixture of morphine and crab urine into their eyeballs, if you're one of the 2% who gives a fig about these stupid made-up statistic messages, copy and paste this into your sig.

[Rock Miyabi]

Do I know somebody who could give you the definitive answer? No. But I am 90% sure the first part really is "What's annoying?" if you listen to it closely. At first I thought it was some joke the composer(s) felt like throwing in and they were mocking this robovoice they made up when they were goofing off with a composition. It sounded like: "What's annoying? Listen!" and they kept it in the song...because they were drunk or something. Then I thought, maybe they played a demo of the game and just really hated the Navi Cust, 'cause nothing ever fits like you want it to. The more I listened, I swore it sounded more like: "What's annoying? This is." I have no clue if I'm anywhere close to deciphering it, but I swear by what I hear. And if it truly worked as subliminal message in that everybody who has something against BN4 doesn't hear it like I do, or never did until I mentioned it, then maybe I'm on to something!
_________________
Avatar art thanks to toberboobap, animated gif thanks to Dr. Wily II

[Miyabi on DA] [Ryuusei Pans all in one thread!](Last Updated on 4/6, TRIBE COMPLETE!)

[HeatShadow]

Hm, I can't say for sure how accurate that is, considering I rarely used the NaviCust, but I do remember that the first thing I think of when I think of BN4 is Dex's Scenario; you start at the stadium, follow the clues all around town, and then end up right back at the stadium? And the whole crisis was alot less critical then they made it out to be? Just makes my blood boil.
_________________
Stuck In The Middle With You; a Metroid and Halo crossover
Devil May Cry: Renegades

[Mansako]

The Pro's of EXE 4:
Soul Unison: The concept was a good idea, and well balanced out, You just can't stick to one soul the entire round you gotta swtich out after 3 turns
Navi Fights: The navi's auctally used chip attacks and you got to fight aginst normal navis
Tournemt Free play: This was fun because you could do it over and over
Duo: I don't see how people thought Duo as impossialbe, he's not a walk in the park but at least it's challenging,

The Con's of EXE 4:
The Story: I thought that the story would have been more intresting if it wasn't about finding someone who can fight off an Astroid.
The missions: Pointless before every round in the tourney
Nebula: I wonder how one man and 2 navis could have done all the international chaos
The Replay value: Fun like an MGS game, boring if you're stuck doing side quests
_________________
Xbox Live Gamertag username:
Famous1337: Games currently playing:
Halo 2, UMK3 and Call of Duty 3

[Guardman.EXE]

Well...I don't think it's the best game of the battle network series...but people exaggerate it when they say it's awful.

I think the main problem with the game is that they tried to put in tons of new stuff without perfecting the new stuff. Take Soul Unisons, GREAT idea. It makes the game more like the original megaman, but they didn't "perfect" it until number 6 with the Crosses. They also had all new sprites.

So basically the tournaments took up too much of the game, especially with most scenarios being dull...They should have had more Nebula Custom Navis. I think that one tourney would have been enough...because battling through complex stages and fighting unique and powerful bosses is practically the soul of MMBN...That's why I'm not fond of liberation missions.

Duo was actually really cool I thought. He proved as a challenge too...(if he had been too easy the game wouldn't have been as fun people) And about the idea of the asteroid...it wasn't an asteroid it was a missle. Duo is a space being that was made to judge and destroy evil. I liked how he kept the same role from Megaman 8, but they made his standards higher.
_________________
Salem Paroo, Guardman's roleplay character!
(Guess which one doesn't belong!)

[Shakai]

I had a lot of angsts about this game. So much so, that I didn't go on to beat it yet. I'm nonly at the point where you get the Giga Chip, Meteor Red Sun.

It's just...Nothing works. I was so bored of this game. I didn't want to go out and fight viruses for the hell of it and get chips. I was so disappointed that I couldn't make something close to a unicode folder. And I was depressed by the souls I got in the first Runthrough.

I got Guts, then Roll, then Thunder. Thunderman had to be the hardest fight I ever had. Partially because I didn't have the chips to own him with! I barely got out alive.

I was very depressed by the roster on the Red Sun tournament. Two navis I really wanted to fight and I couldn't!

The roster was like so:

NormNavi vs. Coldman, NormNavi vs. Searchman, Heelnavi . Rockman, Thunderman vs. Kendoman.

Coldman won, NormNavi won (against FRIGGIN' SEARCHMAN! WTF HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?!), Rockman won (obviously), and Thunderman won. (Against Kendoman. Once again, HUGE disappointment)

And of course, it went on to be Rock beating Thunder, Then Rock against Coldman, Obviously using Thundersoul. If I had any elec chips to sacrifice >>

I really did not like the randomness of that. It made me laugh that in the Akihara tourny (Can't remember the actual name), Gutsman beat Sparkman.

Yes. Sparkman.

Funny isn't it? Each tournament I had I either faced a Heel navi or NormNavi first.

Gawd I was disappointed by this game :<
_________________
The time is come. Bid farewell to your bloodstained past.
Forsake the darkness you once embraced, or the light will find no hold.
Vanquish the dark knight! You and he are one no more!