Tribe 6 (Spoilers in the Mist)

Tachyon360 · Le Croissant Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 740

I'd imagine they were all originally man-made, perhaps stemming from Netto's bond theory. What other reason could be given for the ability of an FM or AM to perform denpa henkan with a human?
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Shakai · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:51 am Post subject:

It was my understanding that FMs and AMs were aliens, and their powers were downsized when they came to Earth since it umm...didn't emenate that green stuff that you see whenever you see Planet FM. So they perform denpa henkan with a human in order to access their powers.

Which reminds me. It is now absolutely clear to me that Subaru is NOT a kid in armor when he turns into Rockman, but in actuality, he becomes a radio-wave being. Proof? He doesn't breath, but he can live just fine underwater, he's extremely cold while in his coat that he got from those snow people, and yet when he turns into his ultra tight spandex-wearing, open helmet form, he's not cold in the slightest.

I'm sure it was obvious enough, but that finally clears up why he didn't need to breathe underwater.
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Tachyon360 · Le Croissant Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 740

They're aliens to the extent that they're based on planets beyond Earth. It doesn't mean there couldn't have been a manmade progenitor of both AMs and FMs.

Sure, the reason they perform denpa henkan with humans is to boost their abilities, but have you ever wondered why they're able to do that?
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ComicX6 · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject:

Maybe they evolved from parasites?

I got the impression that he can go back and forth between flesh and blood and waves. When he's visible to normal people, or being smashed into walls and stuff without phasing through, as well as eat, apparently, he's a kid with armor, but when he is phasing through stuff or on the Wave Roads, he's a wave.

That's the impression I always got.
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Tachyon360 · Le Croissant Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 740

Well now, if we look at Misora's leg boo-boo back when Gemini Spark went around harvesting FMs, we have a piece of evidence that (at least when corporeal) people in denpa henkan are still very much human, albeit with superhuman characteristics.

As for their nature when incorporeal, it's anyone's guess at this point. (I personally think that they're still just as human, with the difference that they're no longer made of tangible matter.)

There seems to be a certain threshold of what they can take when in that state before phasing into their corporeal state, but what that threshold is, again, is anyone's guess at this point.
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TheWebbuilder · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:24 pm Post subject:

Don't forget that Subaru also hefted a monorail waaaaaay back in Ryuusei 3/4. He was definitely visible when that went down as Goyouda and Luna could both see and interact with him.

Further, in Ryuusei 5, Sube slipped back into a material state but still crashed headfirst into a proverbial flood of wave state viruses.

And in the immortal Ryuusei 26 Subaru vaulted around an antenna when under Cygnus Wing's fire. (Granted, you could argue that he was in a material state at the time, but since he is shown transforming from, and then reverting back to, a material state I'm operating under the assumption that he was immaterial at the time.)

But on the flip side, the Cygnus-possessed-Utagai had to materialize his hand to actually carry Amachi around the city... try to figure that one out.

I've always seen Denpa Henkan as taking place on a sliding scale. One one extreme Subaru can walk through walls, not need to breathe, and defy gravity. On the other extreme he's material and will indeed interact with the landscape and can perform all 'normal' human functions. But you've also got varying degrees in the middle where Subaru can interact with both planes (depending upon the make-up of what he's interacting with).

Hence why he can slam head-first into wave state viruses and perform his pole dance; but then turn right around and rocket through a brick wall.

Personally, I believe that the sole reason Misora's injury carried over was because she and Harp were equal partakers in the Denpa Henkan. Whenever an FM took over a human's body for the process, the human was never damaged as a result of the battle; but the FM was.

Case in point: Ikuta's shoulder wasn't damaged as a result of Libra taking him over. One could argue that the wound didn't carry over because it was received before the possession, but it [/i]did[/i] carry over to resulting Denpa Henkan. Also, Cygnus was disintigrated (twice) and Utagai never suffered for it, the guy came through just fine.

Cygnus Wing, Ox Fire and Libra Balance's intro eps seem to suggest that when a forced Denpa Henkan occurs, the FM becomes a shell around the human. This would explain why the FM receives damage but the human doesn't; since the human is protected by the FM 'shell' the damage never actually reaches them. With Harp Note and RockMan, all parties are equally willing and conscious, which is why they share the damage received, they are literally becoming one being rather than just becoming the core of an outside fusion.

And then Tribe has to go and wreck my theory by having WarRock chow down on the OOPart. If my theory were true, then Subaru should be suffering from some massive stomach cramps right about now. >.<
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**Malik** · Local Prinny Deity Age: 34 Joined: 14 Mar 2005 Posts: 1179

But at the same time, wouldn't he have had a massive stomach ache everytime he did a Denpa Henkan before Cygnus removed the Andromeda key? By the time anything is in Warrock's body, it probably temporarily converts into a wave state as well. Otherwise, where does he poop out all those battle cards that were predated?
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DanSidney · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject:

Denpa lifeforms are made out of EM waves, and for that, interacting with some waves that are on their same frequency may boost their abilities. So keep that in mind: brain waves.
Case in question, Ryuusei 3, after Subaru meets up with WarRock in his room, slamming his head on the window (lol), and then going outside to talk.
WarRock says he could notice the resemblance between Subaru's and Daigo's brain wavelength.
Same for the other FMs. FM lifeform + a source of bio-waves that are in synch with their own = power boost.
Remember when Ox tried to denpa henkan with Goyouda? Huge failure. Ox was suffering because he couldn't synch up with Goyouda. Self-Denpa Henkan machine allowed the FMs to turn into humans and for that to produce their own source of bio-waves to synch up with, and allowing a self-denpa henkan.

As for the "field interaction" matter... Rockman can phase from matter to waves as he wishes, as we've plentily seen, and overly abused by Burai (but mostly because Burai is far more comfortable with being a wave than Subaru is, in the end). He apparently can also just turn "partially" into denpa, as seen in episode 19 (Rockman Express!). WarRock couldn't turn all that chunk of stuff into denpa since that went beyond his abilities, although he could with smaller packages. YOU'VE GOT CRABS! Lol.

Concerning the human/FM interaction... first off, let's take a look at Ophiuchis Queen. As she turned, and looked upon Rockman, Luna's will kicked in (ROCKMANSAMA!*GLOMP*HANDMEANDROMEDA'SKEYPLZPLZPLZ?!?!) and as WarRock said, it's "two wills fused as one". Furtherly confirmed by Ox Fire stalling because of Gonta's awakening when she heard Luna's yelling, Cancer Bubble's leftover fanboyism, and such things. Also, apparently, being in denpa henkan is not fully a forced control of the FMs, since some traces of the original humans could be still left into the FMs. I.E. W-Gonta being somewhat scared of W-Luna, Cygnus becoming a genious inventor by absorbing Utagai's intellect, etc.

So now about their bodies. As Denpa Henkans starts, the human is merged with the FM strictly, but as somewhat seen with Utagai and Tsukasa, when this bond is protracted for too long, a full separation of the two beings may be questioned. FMs DO work as an outer shell for the body, as they "protect" the source of their power boost (brain waves), but as time passes by, they merge deeper and deeper, until, who knows, maybe the two become completely indescendible?
Also, try to recall back then, with EXE and Synchro Chips. "The more you Cross Fuse, the longer you'll be able to hold it in". Sorta like working out, the more you do it, the more you'll be able to handle. Misora has been working as Harp Note for a good while, so she worked up her denpa form quite enough, enough to take a beating. Also, take in count that Misora was holding herself in denpa henkan form as well, so her will to stay transformed may add up to that. Keep in mind, it's always waves you're talking about, boosted by brain waves. In Ryuusei 4, WarRock also said something on that line, concerning how he couldn't hold Subaru as Rockman anymore since he ran out of denpa energy.

Possibly, FMs that took over humans could only hold the battle stress for so-long before running out of denpa energy, and needing to flee. With Cygnus in particular, he stood with Utagai so long, becoming quite adapt to his form. As Cygnus Wing got MASSIVELY damaged, he ran out of denpa energy, forcing himself to no longer be able to hold Utagai in and then dropping him out. Utagai wasn't harmed because the attack was in EM form, as proven by Cygnus' death afterwards. Gemini Spark is another example. They were MUCH stronger than Rockman, most probably because not only Gemini was stronger than WarRock back then, but also because Tsukasa has been with Gemini for a long time (also, don't forget:GENIOUS SUBARU. BATTLING AGAINST AN ELEC TYPE UNDER WATER). As they battled Green Dragon's Elemental Cyclone though, Rockman had become already much stronger than before, and being able to consume Gemini Spark's denpa energy. Not enough to kill Gemini, but enough to break the denpa henkan.

... sorry for the TL;DR hazard. D:
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ComicX6 · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:02 pm Post subject:

Subaru also had the elemental advantage at that point.

I would kinda like to see elements play more of a role here, that and Gemini Spark underwater (I thought you were smarter than Netto, Subaru), and possibly Wolf Forest in 39, are the only times I can recall them coming into play. Heck, Ox Fire smashed a water main and was completely uneffected by the water, even though he had to be fully material to do that.
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Tachyon360 · Le Croissant Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 740

DanSidney · Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:11 am Post subject:

Tachyon360 · Le Croissant Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 740

Don't forget where Subaru pulls all of his cards out of. Those pockets seemingly can be used to pull anything off one's person and are not visible until used, hence "magic pocket." I forgot who coined the term, but it was on this forum back when Ryusei 11 aired.
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muimui · Joined: 06 Sep 2007 Posts: 3

TheWebbuilder · Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:04 pm Post subject:

Which could work except that we see Subaru pulling those cards out of his Transer and using them without War-Rock's help. No, the cards are real physical objects just like Suabru's Transer/Star Carrier is; Subaru keeps them on his person and then retreives the one he wants at will.

@DanSidney, I'll pretend that all that made sense. I understand the whole 'FM + Compatable Brain Wave = POWAAAAAH!' scheme, but I tend to get lost when it becomes more complicated than that. I had assumed that the Denpa Energy was strictly tied to an FM going Denpa Henkan without his/her human host, but it appears that that wasn't the case.
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Tachyon360 · Le Croissant Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 740

DanSidney · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:58 am Post subject:

I think willpower plays a great part in all this. Example, Rockman vs all of the FMs, back on episode... 28 I think? after Subaru spoke to the satellite admins, WarRock asked why Subaru was that powerful that day, answering because he was happy to be with him once again. And another example of that, Jirouu. He could hold Wolf inside of him, and even force him out.

But yeah. This is less about speculation, and more about fan-deduction. Still, not really canon. Just stuff I figured out.
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