How long does it usually take?

[tricky77puzzle]

(I don't know if a topic has been made for this before, so excuse me if it has. I suck at searching for these things.)

I've noticed that on the main Puku site, most of the episodes are on the "Timing/Typesetting" stage. How long does this usually take, and is it active or not?

As well, could someone please give me an approximation as to how long the entire process usually takes? I have a feeling that the site hasn't been updated for a while... How long does it take to release a new episode? (Considering the community-based team, I'm not surprised there's a 2-month interval between episodes, but I mean on a good day.)

[Izumi]

It didn't get updated, presumably because Ryouko was getting ready to go to Japan, but episode 18 came out on the 10th of last month.

I guess I'll field this question:

Timing is a process that depends on the timer. A speedy one being careful not to make mistakes can probably finish in a bit over an hour. When I time something, I have a pretty good intuition for sentence length and I speak quite a bit of Japanese so I think I'm a little faster than most; the average Rockman episode will take me under an hour and a half to time.

On the other hand, I've seen other people work at it for four hours straight. How quick it can be done depends on the timer's experience and grasp of where one sentence (in a language they usually only partially understand) ends and another begins. If the translator/editor has not divided up long rambles into sentences that can actually fit onscreen, or translated things that should have pauses between them on the same line, this can take a lot longer because extra lines must be added manually.

Typesetting is a whole other affair that's also dependant on the experience of the person versus the project. Most of the time a show will be mostly a standard font and size. But sometimes there will be a bunch of stuff (attack names, insert songs, sometimes the lines will be colour-coded by speaker, etc) that needs closer care. The credits also need to be modified for each episode, and though I'm no typesetter, I've seen the ridiculous coding required for an opening with credits and karaoke, and it is scary stuff. :P

Beast is also a joint project, so it requires a little going back and forth between two sets of communication, though on the Puku side Ryouko handles pretty much everything. Plus everyone has to complete work in sequence. (Sometimes difficult if people are working on other projects too or are just busy in real life!) So, just say there were four people working on an ep:

Episode 18: Timing/Typesetting (Ryouko), Edited (Gaia), Translated (NumberGirl)

The ep can't be typeset before it's timed, and if it's not edited before it's timed, the timer can have a big mess of "Add New Event" on their hands. After these things are finished, sometimes there's a missing line or two the translator didn't catch, which has to go back through that translator, or (if they're not in contact) to someone else who knows. Sometimes the editor is still researching attack names, continuity issues with previous episodes or cultural stuff that needs to be properly conveyed, all the way up to typesetting. But once all these things are done, it goes through Encoding and QC (these changes aren't usually reflected on the site), and if it passes the quality check it goes to Distro so that there will be a number of people seeding/serving before the torrent hits the public.

And that's your Fansubbing 101 lesson. :P Usually you're looking at 2 months or so between eps, sometimes less, sometimes more!
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avatar by caramell_dansen

[Izumi]

It didn't get updated, presumably because Ryouko was getting ready to go to Japan, but episode 18 came out on the 10th of last month.

I guess I'll field this question:

Timing is a process that depends on the timer. A speedy one being careful not to make mistakes can probably finish in a bit over an hour. When I time something, I have a pretty good intuition for sentence length and I speak quite a bit of Japanese so I think I'm a little faster than most; the average Rockman episode will take me under an hour and a half to time.

On the other hand, I've seen other people work at it for four hours straight. How quick it can be done depends on the timer's experience and grasp of where one sentence (in a language they usually only partially understand) ends and another begins. If the translator/editor has not divided up long rambles into sentences that can actually fit onscreen, or translated things that should have pauses between them on the same line, this can take a lot longer because extra lines must be added manually.

Typesetting is a whole other affair that's also dependant on the experience of the person versus the project. Most of the time a show will be mostly a standard font and size. But sometimes there will be a bunch of stuff (attack names, insert songs, sometimes the lines will be colour-coded by speaker, etc) that needs closer care. The credits also need to be modified for each episode, and though I'm no typesetter, I've seen the ridiculous coding required for an opening with credits and karaoke, and it is scary stuff. :P

Beast is also a joint project, so it requires a little going back and forth between two sets of communication, though on the Puku side Ryouko handles pretty much everything. Plus everyone has to complete work in sequence. (Sometimes difficult if people are working on other projects too or are just busy in real life!) So, just say there were four people working on an ep:

Episode 18: Timing/Typesetting (Ryouko), Edited (Gaia), Translated (NumberGirl)

The ep can't be typeset before it's timed, and if it's not edited before it's timed, the timer can have a big mess of "Add New Event" on their hands. After these things are finished, sometimes there's a missing line or two the translator didn't catch, which has to go back through that translator, or (if they're not in contact) to someone else who knows. Sometimes the editor is still researching attack names, continuity issues with previous episodes or cultural stuff that needs to be properly conveyed, all the way up to typesetting. But once all these things are done, it goes through Encoding and QC (these changes aren't usually reflected on the site), and if it passes the quality check it goes to Distro so that there will be a number of people seeding/serving before the torrent hits the public.

And that's your Fansubbing 101 lesson. :P Usually you're looking at 2 months or so between eps, sometimes less, sometimes more!
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avatar by caramell_dansen

[tricky77puzzle]

So, sometimes the bottleneck for releasing a new episode is that communication takes a long time? (Considering the size of these teams, possibly a week between steps, I'd estimate.)

If so, couldn't the community get a little bigger for these things? Just a smidgen... (I'm too busy myself, and don't know too much Japanese, so I could probably only help with encoding and distro.)

Anyway, since Ryouko is in Japan, will episode 19 take a little longer than usual?

[Ryouko]

I'm actually not in charge of episode 19... that one is in PokerDog's hands. I'm currently working on 20.
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[Ryouko]

I'm actually not in charge of episode 19... that one is in PokerDog's hands. I'm currently working on 20.
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[Izumi]

You're also not in Japan anymore. :P


People always say stuff like, "couldn't you get more people?" or "can't I do anything to help?" but it usually doesn't work out. Particularly with translators. >.>;
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avatar by caramell_dansen

[Izumi]

You're also not in Japan anymore. :P


People always say stuff like, "couldn't you get more people?" or "can't I do anything to help?" but it usually doesn't work out. Particularly with translators. >.>;
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avatar by caramell_dansen

[Mona Risa]

It's this kind of situations that makes me wish I could master Japanese faster. I'm a freshman at Uni, learning Japanese at breakneck speed. But I think I still lack the experience and knowledge to make a good translator.

I too am waiting anxiously but patiently for Beast (and Axess) to be updated, so often I pass the thought of 'what could I do to help'. Currently not much, I am afraid; I am better at reading than listening XD; So I'll continue to wish you guys good luck and maybe in a near future, I'll try to be useful to you.
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[HikariMiyuki]

the same goes to me. I can't do much to help~
But I guess the only thing I can do is to give u guys full support on this ^w^
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[tricky77puzzle]

Actually, I could help on editing, but only for spelling mistakes and misinterpretations of common phrases inside the English itself. I royally suck when it comes to Japanese translation, considering that I've only started learning for about a month now. (I could give the translations a more American slant, if you wanted... although any Japanese names of anything will be left there.)

[Ryouko]

We don't actually need much help in translation or editing (though we still need the end of Beast+ translated...). It's timing, typesetting and encoding that take so long to do now.
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"Cats are interesting. They're kind of like girls. When they come talk to you, it's great. When you go talk to them, it doesn't go so well." - Miyamoto

[Ryouko]

We don't actually need much help in translation or editing (though we still need the end of Beast+ translated...). It's timing, typesetting and encoding that take so long to do now.
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"Cats are interesting. They're kind of like girls. When they come talk to you, it's great. When you go talk to them, it doesn't go so well." - Miyamoto

[tricky77puzzle]

I couldn't really help with timing, even if I know the basic sentence structure of Japanese. I might be able to do typesetting, though... but I can only work about 4 hours per week. I have so much other stuff to do... (Although, if I spend less time watching WPP fansubs, I could extend it to 8 hours... I don't really have that much schoolwork.)

[tricky77puzzle]

*bump* so why does typesetting take so long now? Is it that people aren't motivated enough? Do you think on the "help wanted" section, you could put up a few spots for "timing/typesetting" and "encoding"? I think people are thinking that you guys need translators (and not so many people are very good at Japanese), so if you put up a few ads for timing and typesetting, maybe a few people (like me) could join the team.

Considering that timing/typesetting should only take up to about 4 or 5 hours, and that 4 or 5 hours a week is what a devoted fansubber that has a reasonable amount of free time would probably spend working on these (correct me if I'm wrong), it should only take about a week to do timing, and maybe another week for typesetting. Considering that translation and editing are easily the hardest parts, but are completed for all "Beast" episodes from 19 to 25.

I think the reason that no one is working on timing/typesetting is because no one sees the need.

As well, can projects be worked on concurrently? If it takes 2 months to do one, then a big enough team of devoted subbers can release one per week.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, or am not being realistic. That's not really my strongest point.

EDIT: also, if I were to join the "timing" team, what kind of skills would I require? I don't know if I'm being realistic in that sense either.

[NetOperator Wibby]

*reads Izumi's post*

wow, i didn't know that it took so much work to fansub an episode! and the fact that you guys are doing it for free makes me that much more appreciative and thankful of your work. :D

on another note, i just finished watching the SaitoRAWS of Beast 1~25 just because. i got the *gist* of what was going on, trying to infuse some Japanese phrases into my head. which reminds me, im slacking on my learning.
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[Izumi]

[Izumi]

[NetOperator Wibby]

[Zippo]

Fansubbing is a long, arduous process... and it's often a thankless job. It's an incredible downer to put your free time and a lot of effort into making something, only to have the leechers go "MOAR! FASTER!"

As Izu noted, the main reason why it takes so long to do stuff is that people have lives. Full or part-time jobs, school, and real-life social lives... and other responsibilities.
Sure, there may be a couple hours here and there that a person has free, but fansubbing is practically work... unpaid work at that. So, even when a person finally has a bit of free time, after working, studying, and taking care of all the things in your life that day, you can't blame them for not going "oh boy! I think I'll time an episode now!" We enjoy the series, but we also enjoy our sanity. It doesn't mean fansubbing isn't important to the people involved... but sometimes you've got to pick your priorities.

I understand that, for a fan, this may be frustrating, but when it comes to fansubbing, you've got to understand that an episode will be released "when it's done". Some teams are lucky enough to have more people with more free time, but that's not the case for Wolfpack or Puku. Quality of quantity.
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[tricky77puzzle]

Of course people have lives. I was trying to think about that when writing my posts. I'm sorry if I seemed like a heartless leecher fan who didn't want to contribute. It's just that I have way too much free time on my hands even with the projects that I have to do and other responsibilities that I fulfill. I'd like to spend that time doing something useful. And... I hate to brag about something trivial, but I do have just the teeniest bit of experience timing lyrics for certain songs. (Even in Japanese... I made an entire sub-text for Be Somewhere, the Stream OP song, in about an hour. I could have taken less time, but I was distracted.)

But 4 hours a week isn't exactly a long time either... I wonder what would happen if Ryouko could let go of Puku about 90%, concentrate on a few other things that she's a fan of, and hire a few more people. (Not "hire" as in employ, but recruit. You know what I mean...)

I understand it taking 2 months, but 11 weeks without any word from WPP is ridiculous. (Okay, maybe not "ridiculous" if all the subbers have some big events happening all at once. What event could cause something on that scale?)

If you're booked for 4 or 5 things at once, then maybe it's time to let up a bit. You're only going to tire yourself out if you have so much of your life to fulfill and spend all of whatever little precious time (especially if it's only about 30 minutes a week) you have after doing all the other things you have in real life making fansubs, no matter how devoted a fan you are.

My two zennys (worth about 1.31 yen today) again.

BTW, I need to mention, I'm starting to write fanfics! I've already completed 3 chapters and about 22 "scenes".
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[NetOperator Wibby]

[tricky77puzzle]

Alright, I'm sorry for being conceited.

But the response time to a bad post seems to be immediate, while just a mediocre one doesn't get any attention at all.

[NetOperator Wibby]

[Sol]

Well, you also have to understand that many subbing groups get the same complaints over and over, such as "Why isn't it coming out faster?" "Isn't this supposed to be easy?!" and etc...AFAIK, there are usually so many complaints about releases that it's seen as a form of insult. In fact, many fansubbing channels will ban (and probably permaban) people who even ask about it.

And it's crunch time right about now anyway; many people are studying for finals and/or their jobs are killing them. On top of that, there might be even bigger or little things happening like that at the same time.

Yes, I realize that there hasn't been a release in a while; while I can't be certain, Ryou and the other WPP members on the Beast episodes are super-busy at the moment.
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[Sol]

Well, you also have to understand that many subbing groups get the same complaints over and over, such as "Why isn't it coming out faster?" "Isn't this supposed to be easy?!" and etc...AFAIK, there are usually so many complaints about releases that it's seen as a form of insult. In fact, many fansubbing channels will ban (and probably permaban) people who even ask about it.

And it's crunch time right about now anyway; many people are studying for finals and/or their jobs are killing them. On top of that, there might be even bigger or little things happening like that at the same time.

Yes, I realize that there hasn't been a release in a while; while I can't be certain, Ryou and the other WPP members on the Beast episodes are super-busy at the moment.
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<3 Planty~
Art in icon done by Raburabbit.