What can I do to become a better writer?

 
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Guernsey
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:45 pm    Post subject: What can I do to become a better writer? Reply with quote

Before I ask anything else, I would like to ask if anyone is willing to critique my original short story? I already did this in another forum but I only had a response from two people reviewers. I want ask if I can PM anyone about this and later email it to them but then I would to ask if they could PM me back with advice, I would appreciate it!

Hello, I would just like to ask a question about constructing a story overall. I know that they may already been questions like this but I really need some advice on some matters:

1. Is there any right or wrong to construct a story? I have many ideas in head but sometimes after a little awhile they change sometimes. What are some ways that can construct an overall storyline and what are some outlines that I can use?

2. I am trying to construct some multidimensional characters that don't fit into on trope or description but sometimes even after watching television or reading a few books that is hard to do at least for me. Do you of anyway that I can design such characters and how do know if I designed a good character as not to turn off the readers.

3. I want know how to describe objects, people and place and even though I am already good with this, compared to most writers I believe I could do better with description. Do you know of any way that practice description.

4. Last thing, should I compare my works to that of other writers? I know that I am a good writer myself but compared to most fanfics, original works, short stories and even novels I am not sure if I will ever be that good. Should compare myself to those writers or should I just run my own race?
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TheWebbuilder
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose that this could have gone in the Writing Tips&Questions Thread over in the fanfic library, but, oh well...

I know a few people who thrive on fiction. I'm not going to volunteer them for the job, but I will look them up and bring your request to their attention.

And I'll tell you from the start, just about all of the fics I'm going to reference come from FF.net's Fire Emblem section.

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1. Is there any right or wrong to construct a story? I have many ideas in head but sometimes after a little awhile they change sometimes. What are some ways that can construct an overall storyline and what are some outlines that I can use?


As long as you can clearly tell the reader what it is that's transpiring in your story, then I really doubt that there's a 'right' or 'wrong' way to go about writing a story. Different people will use different methods of telling a story for making their point. The writer of a work like Hammer of Terrascars, which is quite plot-heavy, concerned with storytelling and laden with characters chose to employ a factual: Person-A-did-this-while-Person-B-did-that-approach. A different writer wrote a work called Irony aiming to explain one person's point of view and concerning himself only with one character's development and feelings employed a more emotional, what-I-think approach to the situation. The 'how' of writing generally comes down to who you are and how you write about.


I don't believe that I've ever run into an 'outlining template', or anything such as that. All I can do is show you the process that I use in developing my own works. What I do is:

A. Sketch out the overall theme of the work: What I'm trying to accomplish.
B. Develop the central characters.
C. Set up the villian's goals and motives.
D. Establish obstacles for said villian to overcome and strategies he will use.
E. Develop the lead characters.
F. Establish how the lead characters will catch onto the plot and eventually thwart it.
G. Set up a timeline to show what happens when. Once you decide on an event, decide how to go about forshadowing it.
H. Upon completion of the timeline, write.

Its a bit involved, but it works.

Quote:

2. I am trying to construct some multidimensional characters that don't fit into on trope or description but sometimes even after watching television or reading a few books that is hard to do at least for me. Do you of anyway that I can design such characters and how do know if I designed a good character as not to turn off the readers.


http://rockman-exe.com/online/viewtopic.php?p=141088&sid=1e1d616a87995ad95bf7bfa6450a97e6#141088

There's a character template there that I think will help you out. Its quite in-depth and is fairly solid in helping you to design your characters.

http://concept-mobius.technoguild.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=38

Although geared towards the Sonic the Hedgehog community, that article does provide some great advice with character creation and explains many of the fallacies that turn people off.

Quote:
3. I want know how to describe objects, people and place and even though I am already good with this, compared to most writers I believe I could do better with description. Do you know of any way that practice description.


Eh, again, this one comes back to what kind of writer you are. Different people are going to describe things in different ways. I tend to start at the top of whatever it is I'm describing and work my way down to the botton (in the case of a human, I start with their hair and end with appearal), because this way you're getting the most important attributes described first and the not-so-necessary qualities later.

That's not to say that its the only way to do so, other people do things different ways. Some do a whatever-strikes-my-fancy description, or still others will be very brief.

About the only way to practice description is to do it. Spend some time trying to describe things in different ways and then see which one you like best.

Quote:
4. Last thing, should I compare my works to that of other writers? I know that I am a good writer myself but compared to most fanfics, original works, short stories and even novels I am not sure if I will ever be that good. Should compare myself to those writers or should I just run my own race?


I would say: yes and no.

Yes, by all means read other writers. Sometimes you'll run into a phrase or means of description that clarifies a problem you were having. Other times you'll note some interesting character dynamic that could help your work. Looking at other people's work is a good way to get the creative juices going and to broaden your writing horizons.

No, I don't believe that you should compare your works to everyone else. Everyone grows and learns at different speeds, and the more you write the better you will become at it. To take something that you wrote down off the top of your head and to compare it to... oh, say... trimuti's Vertigo or Shadows Under the Oak Tree, which were extensively thought out, rewritten and developed over a period of years is to do yourself an injustice.

When you read other people's works, aim to learn from them and study their methods in order to help you better yourself. Don't read to compare your work with theirs, it will do nothing but discourage you and fail to help you grow as a writer.
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HeatShadow
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's entirely possible that Guernsey doesn't know about that part of the Fanfic Library. *shrug*

I agree with everything Webbuilder said, and have a few things to add.

First, in regards to question two, the one thing you have to realize is that character cliches are virtually inescapable; there have just been way too many stories and characters already written that creating a completely 100% original character is almost impossible. What you need to make sure you do, however, is to make variations on those existing ideas. An evil genius with a plot to take over the world is a concept as old as fiction itself, but if you make that evil genius a goofball with a very casual and humble approach to his actions, as opposed to the usual maniacal and long-winded braggart, it gives that old archetype a bit of a fresh feel to it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fictional_character_types is a good place to start looking for archetypes you can use as a base for your characters.

For question three, I might have a way you can practice descriptions. Take two people that know each other, and write a description of the first person while looking at them. Write down every detail you can think of about the subject, avoiding unnecessary things like a chipped fingernail or spot of dirt on a shirt. When you're done, have the second person read the description and try and guess who the description is about. I doubt this is a fool-proof method, but it might be worth a shot.

And finally, I'm willing to review your story if you still need it.
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xfyrethespooky
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, first, what kind of story are you writing? i would need at least a sample or something to go on.

about your descriptions of items: in a story, you don't want to be reading descriptions and not have a plot. your descriptions should be long enough to get your point across, but not too long that you're focusing too much on what your item looks like. again, i would need to see your writing, but there's a little piece of advice.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For description, I usually try to focus on details that add to the atmosphere of the scene. You want to have something that allows the reader to form a clear mental image, but at the same time, be succint enough to hold their attention.

As HeatShadow mentioned, it is hard to come up with a 100% original character. What you should do is take an archetype and add your own little spin to it. Okay, so maybe this guy comes off as a pompous ass. Well, why is he an ass, and how can it be done in such a way that is almost refreshing? These are the questions writers should ask themselves.

Finally, I do recommend seeing what other authors, fanfiction and non-fanfiction, do to create the interesting stories that they do. Maybe there are some techniques that you find interesting, or you can just read to see how they construct their work. Use what you learn to improve your own writing, but of course, you don't, and probably shouldn't, just ape their style.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely.

When I review fiction, I focus on character and plot development. If you've read through most of my reviews, good and bad (okay, mostly bad), you'll see that a point that I harp on is adequate descriptions. The story is the only medium of passing information from writer to reader, as you are not physically with every reader gesticulating the scene to them, so your words need to carry your spirit and your ideas precisely without any ambiguities.

In response to question 1, there really is no hard and fast answer to that question. Some start off with such memorable sentences as "Call me Ishmael," or "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times." It is all dependent on the story that you want to write and how you wish to set up the story. I've found that in general my works start off with either a rather provocative statement, or start off with a heavy description of the setting and the primary characters to take part in it.

A good original character should be believable, and not completely eclipse the other characters in the work, especially if you are writing fanfiction. Too many times I have seen a good character go terribly awry because of the amount of attention and/or abilities granted to said character by the author. A good example of this is actually in the library below. Finding this character (I do not wish to name names) is left as an exercise to the reader, but I'm sure you'll be able to find it rather quickly.

As for the original question posed in the topic, the best way to improve writing is exactly the best way to improve any other trade or skill--practice it. Keep writing, and critique yourself, or let others critique you. After you write a lot, you will eventually find your own style of what works for you, and develop along that line. In addition, a good writer is also a voracious reader, since that way you sample other author's styles and pick up various tricks and motifs along the way. You can choose to emulate a good writer, or take elements of their work and incorporate them into your own writing. Just don't start plagiarizing on us.

Hope this helps, and good luck. If you really want people to critique your work, feel free to post in the library and I'll take a crack at it. I may have not been reviewing in quite a while, but I still feel like I know a trick or two.
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Ganondorf8
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of things have already been said around here, but I think I might be able to provide some extra information. I myself have seen the stories of other people in order to get some kind of inspiration, yet at the same time I look around to see what hasn't been done yet and attempt to come up with a story that no one has yet to think about. I do take criticism very seriously in that any suggestions that are made I will try to incorporate for the next part such as using more paragraphs for instance.

My stories on FF.Net tend to utilize a few characters from an anime and place them into a video game world where they interact with the denizens of that world. Sure it sounds a little unusual but then I have done it several times over with strong degrees of success. What I have learned through reviews is that readers do enjoy reading about their favourite couples in fandom, and so I apply that to my work although I don't make it the overall focus otherwise the actual plot becomes lost in the shuffle.

Also, it pays to provide references to the world that your story takes place in as there are people who will know what you're talking about, and they will react really well for it's something that they know about. I should probably give some examples as to what I'm getting at otherwise I could be confusing some people.

I have combined characters from Digimon (that's where my fanfiction craze first started on a technicality) with various Nintendo Worlds, yet I make sure to keep the spirit of that world intact and adjust it enough so that the foreign characters are able to get themselves around without too much trouble. Original characters and the characters that were there in the game should go hand and hand, but not to the point where it completely changes the persona of the official character. It doesn't always work however as you need to use the right kind of setting to go with what the characters are like, but then that is part of the hit-and-miss aspect that comes with the territory. My current projects include Termina from the Legend of Zelda, and Tellius from Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn.

On a side note there are some people that do comment on story length so you should be aware of that. Chapters that are too short will be criticized for that, and at the same time they get criticized if they are too long. You want to have a balance between the two in addition to having a strong enough need to write as much as you think should go into it.

And about the number of people that review stories seeing as you did mention that at the start. These things happen that are beyond your control and even if you don't get as much feedback as you would like, you know that a couple of people did provide the time to do so which means that you should focus on them and give them a good story with which they will continue to look forward to.
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belina te



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:53 pm    Post subject: Writing... Reply with quote

Well...I'D say the most important factors in writing are grammar and spelling...That's all i can say
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Malik
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grammar and spelling are important in writing, but that's generally saved for the last, editorial stage.

Question 1: There is no right or wrong way to construct a story. It's based completely on how you work. You could follow a strict story board so that you don't stray off topic but still have enough flexibility to add things in, or you could spontaneously write, only knowing what you're done with, what you're doing now, and how it'll end. The best thing to do for most is to plan ahead and organize everything, but like I said, that might not be how you work.

Question 2: Excellent answers have already been posted, so I'll give just a few words. Don't kill yourself trying to make your character completely original. A lot of characters, from anything, are very similar to each other. However, people still love them. Yes, I am talking about almost every single Final Fantasy heroes here. A lot of them are angsty little balls of angst, but they each have their quirks and backstories that make them unique. As said before, as long as they're believable and maybe even easy to relate to, they're fine.

Question 3: Again, that's based upon your style. However, you should balance it out. It's a bit boring if you have very vague descriptions and really tiring if you have a lot of descriptions (*coughcough*JamesFenimoreCooper*coughcough*). Ironically, I was told to do both in separate occasions. One reviewer said I should cut back on the descriptions while another said that I needed more. It drove me crazy. So really, it all depends on you.

Question 4: Ehh... Like Webb said, it's good to read other people, but don't compare yourself to them. Obviously you're not them and they're not you. Everyone is going to be different... Or everyone should be different. But definitely read other stories to help yourself. You could learn a lot about organization, vocabulary, structure, and the like just from reading a few fics on FF.net, granted that they're written well. They can even inspire you in certain aspects of your own story.

tl;dr: Remember that you're you when you write and not someone else. Everything you do is dependent on your style and decisions.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

heh, i was hoping that HeatShadow had something to add. :p thanks to eveyone else who has contributed as well. i have a fanfic that only has one chapter atm, lol. one question though, is having the main character you a bad idea?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To the best of my knowledge, a self-insertion is generally looked down upon. But I think if you aren't too blatant with it and stay away from Mary Sue-ism, you should be okay.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm, thought as much ... well, it was only one chapter so i can change character names//bios.
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HeatShadow
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I often enjoy creating characters based off of myself and people I know. Only thing about it is that you have to put ALOT of effort into making sure they're not simple wish-fulfillments and Mary Sues. What I like to do is, instead of copying the real-life person exactly, I make a caricature of them. That is, some of their qualities are removed while others are exaggerated, giving them their own personality that shares similarities with the original person, but is sufficiently different. Hell, I doubt I'm the only one who does it; every now and then I'll watch a film documentary or listen to commentary and overhear one of the writers or directors mention that they based this character or that character off of someone they know.

In short, it's about how much of an effort you put into making the character unique and interesting that determines how successful they are, not necessarily where you got the inspiration for them from.
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Ganondorf8
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done the same thing creating characters that are based on myself and other people that I know. Some of these characters of mine have fantasy-like qualities that I wish that the real person they are based on might have had in some kind of alternate world, while other qualities are enhanced versions of what they already have with some unusual characteristics thrown in for good measure.

I have also created characters that are based on tribes and individual characters from various video games although many of them end up being minor at best with a couple getting a lot of character development due to their presence within the text. Perhaps my best method would be creating dark versions of these characters although I usually do this with my own creations.

Putting yourself into your own story isn't always a good idea, although what I've done is whenever I need to make an actual appearance in one of my works (which is very rare), I choose to make myself depicted as a cameo guest star who doesn't disrupt the main story's flow in any way. I have a brief mentioning and that's about it.

Since the story in question just consists of one chapter then you can still change it to better suit your own needs. If had been say about 10 chapters or so then it would have been a lot more difficult to make such edits to the characters names and so forth.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i see! that would explain why Lan's so dense [exaggerated quality?]. a cameo sounds like a cool idea ... kind of like Stan Lee in every Marvel movie.
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Ganondorf8
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may want to have a limit on how many cameo appearances are going to appear in your story as you don't want to be overrun with them. The character can either be involved with the story to a small degree, or could just be there to make some kind of statement. Whether or not they have a speaking part is up to the individual writer.

Cameo appearances from what I have seen of them through playing numerous RPGs (other genres can feature them as well) are usually referred to as Easter Eggs mainly because the characters that appear are well-known to the audience and provide references to the past. Since this is your story then you pretty much have free-reign to choose however you wish to deal with it.
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