Navi.exe

Heatgutsman V2 · Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:23 pm Post subject: Navi.exe

Alright, I had a bit of trouble deciding where to put this, but I decided it was mostly about programming, so it was general.

Since I began playing Megaman, I've always thought it would be awesome to actually program some form of a Navi. And finally, I'm beginning to get it. Programming doesn't come easy for me, but over the summer I successfully wrote what I believe to be the basis of a Navi program. Unfortunately, its just a Batch file that launches a series of third party programs depending on user input. (I'm not so good at creating executive files yet...)

So essentially, this is simply intended to be a discussion regarding building a navi program. Feel free to discuss attempts, requirements, doubts, ideas, or anything related to such an absurd idea!

Oh! Before I forget, I'd happily distribute my work to anybody interested! The more people working on it, the better!
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destrielve · Age: 32 Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 14

Seeing how I can only code in Javascript, and even then I'm not adept in it, (My C++ is anything but decent, touched a little BASIC and Python)... I probably cannot provide much help, nor can I maintain a good work output for too long, so I won't even attempt to say I can help. However, I can say that the concept of having a NetNavi is interesting, and I've been wondering how long it'll take before someone would take on such an initiative. I applaud you for being one bold enough to do this.

From my point of view, your template seems fine. Its basic, yes, but once you have the core elements done, you can then develop AIs and provide other means of interaction to make it more Navi-like. Though, I might predict that this might take years/decades to perfect.

That being said, I'd love to take a peek at your batch files. They might be rather interesting sights to behold. :D

Saito-kun · Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:21 pm Post subject:

If you use one of the easy game creation tools like Game Maker or Multimedia Fusion, you can make some pretty cool stuff. However, there's no real point unless you have a solid AI behind it that can infer what you want, which isn't something I think anyone in the fandom can do in their basement. Rolling Eyes

That said, there's nothing wrong with making cool-looking applications that sit on your desktop and look like a PET screen. :D

EDIT: :O I honestly didn't read the post above. Very similar, they are yes! Yoda I am!

Tachyon360 · Le Croissant Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 740

You know how Stephanie Meyer's vampires aren't metaphorical representations of human evil nor mythological beings from Slavic folklore, but rather sparkly metrosexuals that fall in love with Mary Sues?

This thread is like one of those "zOMG wai dont we leik haz Naviis yet!!! weve gots teh teknolojie!!!!" threads, only it starts off with a claim that some application launching batch file is the basis of a Navi program, and it's surprisingly grammatical if not altogether lucid.

The parallels here are stunning.
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Heatgutsman V2 · Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:18 pm Post subject:

Tachyon, are you implying that this is just a wild fantasy? I've worked hard on this project, and while I know its a weak base, its far from the end product. Before its over, I intend to replace the entire framework of the program several times over. Batch files are fine, but they're nowhere near powerful enough for the intended application! I'm just working with what I've got.

As far as a way for the program to recognize what the user is inferring, I believe the answer lies in Artificial Neural Networking. While the transition is going to be difficult, an interface known as "Verbot" shows some potential.

I'm not saying the technology is all the way there yet, but isn't that what the battle network series was all about? Improving technology for a brighter future?
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Ozone · Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:46 am Post subject:

I suggest you a compiled language (such as C, C++...) instead of an interpretered one (python, java...) : it's far away faster

sadly, I'm not good in programming, so I wish you good luck! ^_^

P.S.: will you release it under GPL? Laughing

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Heatgutsman V2 · Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:12 am Post subject:

@Ozone: Ah, thanks for the advice, I'll have to look a bit further into C++; Its something I should learn before I get too old. While I don't know much about GPL, I do plan to make the Navi program open source software. However, there are no current plans to create a Linux distribution. I've got nothing against Linux, but I just don't have that knowledge at this time. Maybe someday in the future...
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Unknown Neo · Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:42 pm Post subject:

I think the important thing is to show what you've done. Prove it and people won't say anything.

Tachyon360 · Le Croissant Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 740

Don't play software engineer, kiddo. Quit boasting that something so inconsequential as an application launcher (assuming you even made one) is anything noteworthy.

Don't drag this out. You're not going to impress anyone.
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Saito-kun · Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:11 pm Post subject:

Why are some people allowed to be terse and frank and some not? Rolling Eyes

Heatgutsman V2 · Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:32 am Post subject:

Tachyon, I'm certainly no software engineer. But don't act as though I'm just some punk kid screwing around. I have three years of programming behind me. Its not much, and I really don't think its enough to impress anybody. I was looking to work alongside people with a similar goal, perhaps gain some input. If you have nothing useful to add to the conversation, then I politely request you decline to comment. Thank you.

For those interested, here is a download link: http://rapidshare.com/files/293643413/Navi_Project.zip.html

Its my first time using Rapidshare, so please alert me if it doesn't work for some reason.

This is the portable version, and is meant to be launched from a flash drive. Unzip the files onto a flash device, and launch it from there.

Hope it works!
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Tachyon360 · Le Croissant Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 740

You claim to have 3 years of programming experience, and yet all you have to show for it is a simplistic group of DOS batch files with some portable apps bundled with no regard given to licensing? And this is supposed to be the basis of a real-life functional Navi-like program? On top of that, you think posting on a forum dedicated to a defunct anime is supposed to yield anything more than some ego stroking? Give me a break. I'm betting you don't even know the difference between a class and a namespace.

You can still save face and drop the pretense.
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Heatgutsman V2 · Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:12 pm Post subject:

In all honesty, I did hope that maybe there would be somebody here with some sort of ability. And from the sounds of it, that person would be you. You seem to know what you're talking about, and despite your heavy criticism of the idea, I would be honored to see your work on such a project.

And I did not concern myself with licensing of the portable apps. It just wasn't something that I thought would be of importance in these early stages of development.
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tuxdev · Net Savior Joined: 27 Dec 2005 Posts: 139

Navis are hard. Really hard. Developing a Navi requires that you first solve several open problems that are currently under active research:
1. Voice printing
2. Speech recognition
3. Natural language processing
4. Artificial Intelligence with a decent level of personality
5. Speech synthesis

This isn't a complete list at all, just what I can think of on the top of my head and from remember the debate I had with Tachyon about this a long time ago (I suppose I should feel kind of flattered that you gave me the time of day then, Tachyon).

You need voice printing so that the Navi only accepts commands from approved users. Speech recognition, natural language processing, should be obvious.

You'd need an AI way more advanced than anything currently even theorized. Pretty much all current AI work is heavy on the "artificial" and not so much on the "intelligence". Has been forever. The Eliza effect goes quite far, so there's at least a little room to fudge things, but not much. The AI would still need to learn and mimic the user's patterns to the level that it could conduct business a la NumberMan.

Personal assistants have always failed before because they were always boring personality-free dancing hippos that don't actually do anything useful. Problems with information overload, limited interfaces on mobile devices, and handicap accessibility might make something like a Navi practical.

I'm not saying that it's not possible or useful, just very, very hard.
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Tachyon360 · Le Croissant Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 740

A poseur and a sycophant. You really have no shame, Heatgutsman V2. I'd say that at this point, you don't have the vaguest shred of credibility, and I'll leave it at that.

Oh, and how have you been, tuxdev? You haven't been around for like 2 years now, was it? It was a fun little discussion we had back then.
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Heatgutsman V2 · Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:57 pm Post subject:

And I dislike you as well Tachyon. You've said nothing constructive since you came here, and from what I've seen, your only purpose is to insult me. As I mentioned in my first post, programming isn't one of my strong points. Its taken me three years to figure out what I've learned. So, perhaps you view me as a poser and sychophant. I think you're a total dick.

Anyway, I'm Jason, and its been a pleasure meeting you.
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Tachyon360 · Le Croissant Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 740

The purpose of my posts was to call you out on your bullshit and give you a chance to walk away. Maybe you're blind, but over the course of this thread, you've revealed more and more abject stupidity. I'm not even going to point it all out.

You've only come here to stroke your ego, hoping whatever Rockman.EXE fans remain here would offer you praise and shallow encouragement, if only you'd present a stupidly simple script and a boast about how amazing you can make it. All that fluff about programming not being your strong suite was nothing but you feigning humility (and shooting yourself in the foot, I might add, since that directly contradicts your boasting). Where upon somebody called you out, you tried kissing some ass in an attempt to get that person to lay off.

It's a very repetitive formula. You're nothing unique in that regard. There have been one or two idiots coming here before to make similarly grandiose claims, and I've seen the same crap on so many other forums. (I do distinctly remember one claiming to have an animation studio working on a Rockman movie).

If you were looking to actually learn some programming (and mind you, you don't even know enough to know that you've made a script, not a program), you'd be posting on a community centered on teaching people how to program. If you genuinely wanted to start a discussion here about the possibility of Navis in the future, you wouldn't have prefaced it with the claim that a dinky application launcher is the basis for an actual Navi.

In short, grow up or GTFO. I've said all I'm going to say here.
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**Sol** · Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject:

I knew this wouldn't turn out well.

First off, both of you quit it with the insults. Yes, yes, I know that one of you started it, but that still doesn't make it okay to continue it.

Tachyon, quit being so damned condescending. While you're more than likely right about this whole thing, this does not excuse your attitude nor your remarks towards Heatgutsman. Being blunt to get your point across is fine; being blunt while throwing in a few insults is not. Watch your tone in the future, and consider that more than friendly advice.

...for that matter...Heatgutsman. While I do not agree with the tone Tachyon used, he is essentially correct in his criticism. If you're going to make claims and someone calls you out on it, then something went wrong somewhere. Next time, remember that before you start making any sort of claim about anything, be prepared for criticism. The topic of Navis being real has come up quite a bit in the past, and they have never ended well. Not once. Just to let you know.

I'm keeping a close eye on this thread. Watch yourselves.
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Tachyon360 · Le Croissant Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 740

Well, as I mentioned at the end of my last post, that was all I'm going to say.

Nevertheless, point duly noted. Refrain from use of "idiot," "stupid," or any similarly insulting put-down. Got it.
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Heatgutsman V2 · Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:39 pm Post subject:

Sol, after reviewing the rules and regulations, Tachyon has done nothing warranting any kind of a warning. Speaking in a condescending manner is not prohibited.

I suppose I was getting cocky, and every now and then we all need to be cut down to size. Thank you for your criticism, Tachyon; I will think twice before posting in the future.
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