What is "life"? • Morality in the EXEverse

[PlaguedOne]

This is a repost of the thread I started prior to the hacking. Sadly, I do not have all of the replies that had been posted, but feel free to re-add anything you may have posted. And of course, new replies are quite welcome.

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As I was playing through EXE4 the other day, I began to think about what Dr. Regal's point at the end of the game. As far as Navis and internet beings go, what constitutes life?

Navis - Obviously Net Navigators are sentient beings. They feel; both physically and emotionally. Or is that all just programmed into them. Do they feel pain for the same reasons we do? Is it a defense mechanism, just like the way a human instinctively retracts his or her hand when they place it on a burner they did not think wat hot? Humans feel physical pain so that we know when something is wrong. When a Navi feels physical pain, one can assume that it is for the same reason. But, since this is programmed into them, does that negate the validity of the sensation? In the same respect, Navis feel emotions as well. Love, hate, emnity, friendship, trust... all of these can be expressed by a Navi, but are they all just programmed responces? If they are, does that invalidate the emotion? Is a Net Navigator life? Is it illegal to delete one, and if so, to what degree? What if the Navi has no operator?

Viruses - Viruses sometimes appear to feel pain. When Rockman destroys a Mettool, is scream out. Are viruses still considered as we consider them today? If a virus is present in a computer system but is not causing any harm, should it be deleted? In the games and the anime, we have seen viruses show affection, so they aren't always malign creatures. Do concepts such as cruelty to animals apply to things like viruses in the EXE universe?

Programs - Even programs (and in certain extreme cases, operating systems) are depected as sentient beings. They are often grateful for Rockman's assistance, and fearful when threatened with destruction. But again, is all of these just programming?

Can the internet spawn life? What are your opinions on these matters?
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[PlaguedOne]

This is a repost of the thread I started prior to the hacking. Sadly, I do not have all of the replies that had been posted, but feel free to re-add anything you may have posted. And of course, new replies are quite welcome.

_____________________________

As I was playing through EXE4 the other day, I began to think about what Dr. Regal's point at the end of the game. As far as Navis and internet beings go, what constitutes life?

Navis - Obviously Net Navigators are sentient beings. They feel; both physically and emotionally. Or is that all just programmed into them. Do they feel pain for the same reasons we do? Is it a defense mechanism, just like the way a human instinctively retracts his or her hand when they place it on a burner they did not think wat hot? Humans feel physical pain so that we know when something is wrong. When a Navi feels physical pain, one can assume that it is for the same reason. But, since this is programmed into them, does that negate the validity of the sensation? In the same respect, Navis feel emotions as well. Love, hate, emnity, friendship, trust... all of these can be expressed by a Navi, but are they all just programmed responces? If they are, does that invalidate the emotion? Is a Net Navigator life? Is it illegal to delete one, and if so, to what degree? What if the Navi has no operator?

Viruses - Viruses sometimes appear to feel pain. When Rockman destroys a Mettool, is scream out. Are viruses still considered as we consider them today? If a virus is present in a computer system but is not causing any harm, should it be deleted? In the games and the anime, we have seen viruses show affection, so they aren't always malign creatures. Do concepts such as cruelty to animals apply to things like viruses in the EXE universe?

Programs - Even programs (and in certain extreme cases, operating systems) are depected as sentient beings. They are often grateful for Rockman's assistance, and fearful when threatened with destruction. But again, is all of these just programming?

Can the internet spawn life? What are your opinions on these matters?
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[Neko]

I feel weird about this. I run into this all the time when I write, how am I supoused to treat the navi's when they are deleted or hurt? Can't a backup be regenerated or can't the data just be recreated?

Still, I think that Navi's are in a sense "alive" but not quite in a biological way. Kinda hard to explain, I also see programs and even viruses in the same way. I'm writing a story where there are AI programs and Viruses that evolved and grew in the computer by themselves without human help. So if something like this can happen then are they actually alive?

I'd like to think so, and I'm sure there are cases (such as early Blues and Enzan) where Navi's are not treated as sentient beings but as data instead.

Kinda a weird thing to think about, even if it is just a cartoon. How will we handle this if/when we create sentient AI programs?
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[Shades]

IMO, a Navi follows his operator because that was the way he programmed. Stronger navis, or well-programmed ones are given better AI. The AI lets them know they feel pain, and I believe a Navi does have Artificial nerves. The Artificial Intelligence is as strong as any human intelligence, and since Navis multiply faster than humans, it's possible that they will disagree with us. They'll realize they were programmed to follow their operator, and cause a contradiction with their intelligence. I believe Virii and Programs were also programmed with AI, except a much weaker version of it, which allows them to feel pain and communicate with each other. In a way, we can think of Virii as monkeys and Navis as humans, since Virii are not as evolved.
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"Wisdom is what's left over after we run out of personal opinions."

[Sai-kun]

This...kinda reminds me.....of Chobits....Like...when your navi (real or not =P) is hurt, whatever, you can't help but feel sad, and you know that your navi may not experience pain, but you do, because it may not have a real heart, but something similar to it beats inside of your own...

I dunno. I'm just rambling now.XD
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all i ever wanted was the world

[RollEXE]

Everything has meaning....existance has meaning... life has meaning....

[Poochy.EXE]

Well, I say that if it shows emotions, can think, act, and learn for itself, and can pass the Turing Test, it's well past the line between living and nonliving.

And from a slightly different way of looking at it, trees and plants are considered living things, and Navis act a pit of a lot more alive than a tree, ne?

Besides, humans are also 'programmed' similarly to Navis. People automatically flinch when they hear a loud noise, retract their hand when they touch something hot, etc., and humans aer obviously considered living.

As for programs and viruses, I'd say those are on the borderline. They're obviously a lot less intelligent and act more like automated drones running macros than having actual intelligent thought, yet they seem have senses just like most large living organisms.
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[Bickazer]

I may be a bigoted jerk, but I think that net navi's aren't really....intelligent. They just do what they're programmed to do; it just happens they're really advanced. That WAS what I thought, at least, until I watched I, Robot on DVD yesterday.

"Someday they'll have secrets...someday they'll have dreams."

Anyway, watching I, Robot convinced me that if they evolve further, a net navi COULD theoretically become a true intelligence. As in the case of robots--if left to their own devices, they WILL evolve (not really sure, I think I forgot what exactly Lanning said in the movie besides his "There will always be ghosts in the machine" and "Someday they'll have secrets..." lines. XD)

However, I don't believe that net navis are actually alive. Advanced, evolved, intelligent programs, mayhaps, but still not alive. To be alive, it needs a pulse, a heartbeat, and the ability to breathe, eat and feel tired.
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[XHunter17]

wow everys bring back the old topics ^-^ :D
*i forgot what i posted last time*
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[Magenta]

Are our own emotions not also programmed into us? Maybe not in the same way, but we have instinctive reactions in our minds from when we are born, in our brains, and as time goes on and events occur these feelings start to develop into unique forms, influenced by the way we are and the things that happen to us.
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[Darkloid_Blues]

Ooh, this is a bit of a hard one.

In my opinion? Yes, beyond a shadow of a doubt, I believe Navis can think and feel. Forte is a very good example of a Solo Navi who was so affected by his emotions he decided to pursue revenge.
I think...the friendship between Enzan and Blues is a lot different than shown earlier on. We usually see things from Netto's point of view--that Enzan's a jerk and he doesn't care about anyone. But in those rare episodes when we get Enzan's point of view he seems closer to Blues than Netto is to Rockman.
Of course, that's probably because he is still very dependant on Blues and always has been. For whatever reason he embraces Blues as sentient, even though he'll only show it when they're alone or it can be seen in his memories (Axess 49).
However, I do not believe ALL Navis possess a full degree of sentience. Some of the Standards may very well have been just plain programmed, and I'm pretty sure virii are like animals, running on pure instinct and only a tiny bit of awareness.
Programs? I think they're sentient. In EXE3 the programs will be hiding in the door resting, and they certainly fret and worry like custom Navis and humans.

So, I believe any full custom Navi, like Rockman, Blues, Forte, Roll, etc., is sentient. Maybe Standards are too, we don't see many of them. Programs, yes, virii, animals.

Of course, the debate on whether or not it's right to delete Navis isn't simple either. It all comes down to whether you believe it's right to kill a human, too.
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Back again? Let's see how this goes. I get rather busy, you see.

[Bickazer]

They should make navis harder to delete, I think.

Personally, I don't think that deleting a navi counts as the same as killing a human, since you can bring a navi back to "life" again, right, and for humans, the closest thing that exists so far is cryogenics.
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Seto Kaiba owns my soul. Ph33r.

[zero.exeDS]

before i read this post i just thought viruses just attack and infect stuff

but this topic really makes me think is deleting a mettaur like killing your dog
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thanks for the avatar and sig final

[Nazne]

Explain. You revived a five-month-old topic, you might as well put some thought into your revival. <<;;; Otherwise, reviving old topics without relevant information to add to it is against the rules.

-BMA

[Black Angel]

Navis are just like humans. They feel pain, they experience hate, love, envy and greed. There lifes are just as fragiles as ours, it takes something horrible to delete them, just like it takes something horrible to kill us. Navis are fashioned after humans, like humans believed they are fashioned after god.

As for programs and viruses, I see them as animals in our own world. They are less intelligent and follow their instincts/programming. They are fearful of death and at times will abandon their insticts/programming (like when you house train/domesticate an animal). But eventually will return to their insticnt/prgramming when something triggers it (like a bird just fly bys a house cat and it follows and kills it).

So yes, they beings living beings with emotions and actions like our own.
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[Megagirl.exe]

In my opinion, I think that navis have feelings. Like when theyr operators are sad, theyr worry about them ( Well, the good guys of course). They work hard and respect theyr netop. There are navis that are bad or good just like humans. Actually, navis are like humans.
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*Rockman,Netto,Roll,Meiru fangirl*

[Tachyon360]

Personally, I'd have about as much trouble and remorse permanently deleting a Navi as I would uninstalling Half-Life 2 or Photoshop. Excellent programs to have, and I'd hate to see them go, but they're just that - programs.

Besides, Navis can be backed up, so I could have fun gunning down my Navi to shreds over and over again, until the novelty would wear off.

"Hey, check out this new backup app!"
"Wow! Those are some... nice.. features... Oh crap, not again..."
*BOOOOOM!!!!*
*Restoring...*
"Oh crap, not again..."
*BOOOOOM!!!!*
*Restoring...*
"Oh crap, not again..."
*BOOOOOM!!!!*
*Restoring...*
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[HeatShadow]

[Tachyon360]

[King Reaper]

Since the story takes place so far into the future, I'd figure even simple programs could become self aware. Through being self aware, they can evolve, so to say, and become smarter, more advanced. They could possibly develop emotion, the ability feel pain. After all, we evolved from Huge, unfeeling, monsters into small, sleek( in some cases) super smart creatures, and the same is happening for computers. They've developed from those huge, militry grade things, to thumbnail sized chips able to store more than the human brain. Yes, I do believe that, if they were real, navis could be considered a form of life.


Woah... :! did I write that? I can't believe what I write sometimes.... -_-;

[Doc_2]

It would depend on many things. Navi's are supposed to have souls so that seems to be life.

I think navi's (like reploids) will rise up and cause total chaos and mass destruction.
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