Navi/Human Romance

Eyebright · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 12:26 pm Post subject: Navi/Human Romance

Do you think it's possible, and why?

anime21 · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 12:37 pm Post subject:

I think it is possible but very unlikely. I know that navis and humans have emotions, well at least some navis with some form of emotions. I think that they might build a strong relationship with them too but I think it is highly unlikely that they would fall in love. I think It is kinda like unrequited love, They are from two different worlds. Seems almost impossible for them to be together. I think that would be a good idea for a fanfic though. ^^;;
_________________

**Sketch** · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 12:43 pm Post subject:

Maybe in some sort of Yaoi fanfic or something, other than that, no.

Would you like to tell us what you think? It's pretty stupid to make a topic about something and not express your opinion about what you're asking. --
_________________

Eyebright · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 12:47 pm Post subject:

Myself? I think it's entirely possible. People fall in love a lot more often than they think, and the bond between a human and their Navi is usually so strong that it seems very plausible that it could escalate into romance. I have read a great deal of science fiction stories exploring that very possiblity, and I find it fascinating.
Haven't you ever loved someone that you couldn't get close to? Not to mention the possiblity of physical closeness with the existence of Dimensional Chips and, say, holographic programs...

**Sketch** · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 12:52 pm Post subject:

Elementalman.EXE · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 12:55 pm Post subject:

I swear if someone write a fic with Narcy falling love with VideoMan and bringing him into the real world I will hang myself
_________________

Elementalman.EXE
Nothing is True. Everything is Permitted.
1000 Post on Sept. 18 2005 at 6:29pm

Eyebright · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:12 pm Post subject:

Even so, I still think that it is possible for a human and Navi to fall in love... though the relationship would be a bittersweet one, due to the lack of physical contact. Besides, it would be interesting to see how the two would try to breach the barrier between them... any ideas?
My interest was spurred long ago by the story of a military computer who realized that it was in love with one of the female technicians who operated it. Unfortunately, it was far too shy to tell her the truth, and so spouted off about its feelings to one of her male colleagues... the very same one, in fact, who had told the computer about this woman in the first place and given it the dictionary definition of love by which the computer judged its feelings for the woman.
This man was also in love with the female techinican, and had told the computer that she loved poetry...
Fast-forward a few days, when the computer has mysteriously shut itself down and the military is in an uproar. The male technician has come across a massive encoded message that the computer spewed out before dying, and guess what it is? A lifetime supply of love poems dedicated to the woman he loves. Beautiful ones, too. The man marries her, but he never tells her that he's not the one who wrote all that poetry.
I just thought that sort of dedication was admirable, and if a Navi and human can be friends, then why can't the bond get stronger? It would be harder to maintain than a relationship with someone from their own worlds, true, but with the right amount of dedication, the lack of physical contact could probably be surmounted in some way.

Digigamer · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:48 pm Post subject:

Why couldnt someone fall in love with his navi?
If i had Medi or Roll as my navi i would have a big crush on em too! @_@; Laughing

_________________

"Gah!!"
"What's wrong?"
"It's peeing in the break room! I repeat, It's peeing in the fucking break room!!"

Dal_Sengo · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:50 pm Post subject:

Pardon my French, but why the hell should this be an issue. Isn't there enough immoral dignity in the world already. Not to mention it's just plain weird.

Eyebright · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:57 pm Post subject:

Of course I didn't write that story myself. I have simply forgotten where I found it... it's quite old, I remember that much. It was one of those gigantic, clunky 1960s style computers that takes up several rooms... only it had a very advanced AI.
And why would you consider such a thing perverse? I think that two consenting, sentient beings falling in love is completely legitimate. And, considering the sheer number of Navis and humans that exist, it would be likely to come up sometime.

Pitchums · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:01 pm Post subject:

Eyebright · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:18 pm Post subject:

How can you ever be certain that a being cannot think for itself? Navis can be independent of operators, they can defy commands, and they show all the signs of having free will. Their intelligence is not artifical, but manufactured. Who is to say that they aren't independent? They can be programmed to behave a certain way, but so can we - through genes, environment, and experience.

Pitchums · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:26 pm Post subject:

Eyebright · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:27 pm Post subject:

Also, the definition of life in and of itself is very sketchy. I would have to think that the most important requirement would be independent thought, and Navis most certainly exhibit that.

Pitchums · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:28 pm Post subject:

Tachyon360 · Le Croissant Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 740

Even Rockman can be modified and customized in the games.

As for the definition of sentience, let's suppose it's something as complex as self-recognition, mathematic skills, and language. Does that mean it's not perverse for humans to love chimpanzees and dolphins? Yes, even though they are capable of those things.

Navis are only semi-intelligent. There's been a lot of real research lately into making non-sentient things respond with human-like comments in a human-like manner. Navis are designed to be human-like, and it seems like the EXE series takes that research to the nth degree. It doesn't mean Navis are human or possess human-level sentience.

Pitchums · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:30 pm Post subject:

Eyebright · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:37 pm Post subject:

Even in the anime and manga it is mentioned that Navis have souls. If this is so, are they not independent beings?
The brain is a very complex thing. In order to make an AI as advanced as a Navi's, it would need to respond to stimuli with at least the same measure of intelligence as that of a human. To that end, they would be given systems capable of independent thought mirroring a human brain.
I think it is likely that Navi AI systems are born of the spontaneous growth of networks, with slight modification depending on what they should be used for.

Tachyon360 · Le Croissant Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 740

Eyebright · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:53 pm Post subject:

To all this I reply with a couple of questions. First, do you think that the creators of Rockman would want us to get attached to characters that were not independent beings? And second, how do we know that Navis are not self-aware when we can never be certain that we ourselves are self-aware, and not simply following the orders of some unseen program?

In addition:

"How can we determine self-awareness in robots? What if they are just programmed to APPEAR self-aware, but are, in fact, not? Marvin Minsky, noted AI scientist, when asked that question, turned it around and asked, "How can we know if a human is self-aware?" Many books and studies have attempted to answer precisely that, with greater or lesser degrees of success (Minsky's book, "Society of the Mind" is a great place to begin researching this topic).

"Ultimately, however, the question of self-awareness comes down to an individual leap of faith: 'I am self-aware, and I see others behaving in similar ways, so I will assume that they are self-aware, also.' Can we make this leap of faith where robots are concerned?"

That is the determining factor: perception.