Navi/Human Romance

blazequest · Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 9:43 am Post subject:

Wow. I stand corrected. There are quite a few anime homosexual characters. And I call myself an anime fan... T_T

That gay character in DBZ, that was added for humor. Most gays are. There are very few actual gay relationships in anime. (waits for an onslaught of disproving arguments). I said a few. I didn't say they didn't exist.
_________________
Original name: blazequest

Toto · Net Savior Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 184

**Plantman** · Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 10:12 pm Post subject:

Again we're not talking on terms of our reality. Thinking just about programming, feelings aren't something 'real' in terms of what they are aside from the sensorial feelings. We can't describe where 'love' or 'hate' comes from. Yet we feel them, we know we have them, by your logic if you fell in love with someone it means you were programmed somewhere to love that person?

One of the most 'logical' ways to put a feeling of this nature is that you 'think' it. By that matter a navi doesn't need to be programmed to love someone, all the need is to think. That automatically makes the feeling real for this being. A navi that can think on its own can choose to not like or like someone more then others. The same happens with the Darkloids, since they originated espontaneously on the net without intervention of another human according to the anime, there's no way they were 'programmed' to have certain feelings.
_________________

Hecha en MÉXICO - Avatar by Me.
"Logic is the Ultimate Weapon."

Eyebright · Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 6:34 pm Post subject:

They DID? O_o I really need to see more of the anime...
There is no AI complex enough to react to the world like a living thing yet, but it will probably happen someday quite soon. And we'd better be ready to treat it nicely, because it would just be cruel to mistreat anything that showed an inclination towards pain upon poor treatment...
Yes, uncertainty is a little creepy. I used to spend whole weeks when I was younger being afraid that I was the only thing that was real, and everyone and everything else around me was just a complex illusion. There is still no way for me to be sure that it isn't, but by God it is a good illusion and there are people who seem to care about me in it.
Are you sure that all of the Darkloids were self-generated? Could some of them have been made by someone else?
_________________
I win because I love my enemies. Do you love your enemies?

**Plantman** · Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 8:55 pm Post subject:

Darkloids in the anime are spontaneously generated for the most part, just a couple of them aren't that won't mention due spoilers.
_________________

Hecha en MÉXICO - Avatar by Me.
"Logic is the Ultimate Weapon."

Eyebright · Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 9:15 pm Post subject:

*Beady-eyed gaze* Which ones?
_________________
I win because I love my enemies. Do you love your enemies?

Elizabeth · Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 10:19 pm Post subject:

**Plantman** · Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 10:51 pm Post subject:

**Izumi** · Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 11:59 pm Post subject:

blazequest · Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 10:27 am Post subject:

Enzan Chaud · Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 11:48 am Post subject:

Someone that's very obvious along these terms is also Kojiro/James of Pokemon. I think he is the one character that never really changed from the original because Kids are too dense to notice. <.<;

errr...just wanted to point that out n_n;
_________________
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=profile&id=100000142872316
http://mikaelthecreator.deviantart.com/
http://twitter.com/TheArtHero
http://www.myspace.com/the_masked_man

Eyebright · Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 11:54 am Post subject:

Well, you never know. Crossdressers are not necessarily gay. I could point out some real-life ones... ordinary guys, too, not weird celebrities.
_________________
I win because I love my enemies. Do you love your enemies?

**Plantman** · Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 1:56 pm Post subject:

Allow me to put it this way in regards of crossdressing

[spoil:255df07cd2]Narcy, Asteroid Videoman's operato claims he's beyond gender, he's pretty flanboyant and it would be hard for people not to think he's a crosdresser or confuse him with a woman. The anime has provided he seems to be rather 'straight' as hedreams of fangirls rather then fanboys.[/spoil:255df07cd2]
_________________

Hecha en MÉXICO - Avatar by Me.
"Logic is the Ultimate Weapon."

Toto · Net Savior Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 184

Eyebright · Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 5:07 pm Post subject:

How can we be sure that ANYTHING does or does not think? If Navis have all the faculties of the simulation of thought, then why should we not think of that simulation as being as legitimate as our own thought processes?
If something shows that it is in pain, you do not assume that it does not actually feel that pain. If something possesses all the evidence of having thought and emotion, then it would be dangerous to assume that it does not. That sort of thinking is what perpetuated slavery and continues to perpetuate the mistreatment of animals.
If something shows all the signs of being able to think and feel, then as far as anyone knows, it can.
Also, by the reckoning of physics, biology, and psychology, we are programs - the products of genetics, stimulus, instinct, evolution, and the stream of information that makes up our very existence. A series of factors throughout our lives 'programs' us to behave a certain way, and, just like with Navis, different input can change the way we behave. Humans are not free of the influence of their environments, as people would like to think. We are all suceptible to the subtle programming of forces outside of ourselves.
_________________
I win because I love my enemies. Do you love your enemies?

**Plantman** · Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 5:10 pm Post subject:

The thing is, what makes you believe WE aren't 'programed'. Just because they're artificial their feelings do not follow the same basis behind ours.
We ARE programmed, there's programation in human beings through genetics, we're programmed by nature and intraction with the medium to behave and like certain things.

Some people in the world are programmed since their conception to be serial killers for example, some people are programmed to feel atraction for one gender over the other -yes, some cases of homosexuality are genetic.

They might be programs, but remember the whole thing behind the games and anime is that navis are as "human" as the humans that created them and sometimes even more human then men. Humanity isn't a trait exclusive to mankind as much as we like to believe it is. Love is real as soon as it's not 'imposed' or forced. Again, you're disregarding the fact Capcom itself chooses to give real feelings and real 'humanity' to these 'man creations'. Nobody forced Andrew to fall in love, nobody programmed him to fall in love with one human.

In the context of the game and the context of the anime, it is possible because it's been already shown there. Again, this topic is not about 'real life' it's about what the game and anime -and sometimes maybe the mangas- present to us. and by that context, they're possible they're real, and they're not 'programmed' into any of the navis.
_________________

Hecha en MÉXICO - Avatar by Me.
"Logic is the Ultimate Weapon."

Eyebright · Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 5:14 pm Post subject:

Also, why on EARTH would you like Rockman.EXE if you didn't think of the Navis as legitimate characters and living things?
_________________
I win because I love my enemies. Do you love your enemies?

Pitchums · Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 5:33 pm Post subject:

Eyebright · Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 5:46 pm Post subject:

I dunno... it just seems sort of odd to me. I am fascinated by the concept of a real AI being made someday, but that is because I believe that it would have a consciousness and I wonder how it would interact with the world around it.
Robots are our friends! So treat them nicely! ^-^
_________________
I win because I love my enemies. Do you love your enemies?

**Plantman** · Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 5:59 pm Post subject:

I agree with Pitchums here, many people got into Rockman.EXE for many reasons that are far from 'deep'. The fact you envision all those sci-fi known themes about humanity and 'our creations' becoming as human as ourselves doesn't mean other people will play/get into them for the same reasons you do. You tend to take many of the things you think for facts shared by everyone, many people prefer the action of the topic, rather then the deeper meanings of it, and someone's interpretation of it will differ from yours. never asume people like a series for the same reasons that attracted you to it.
_________________

Hecha en MÉXICO - Avatar by Me.
"Logic is the Ultimate Weapon."