Anime Elitism

Starone · Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:59 am Post subject: Anime Elitism

http://www.animenation.net/news/askjohn.php?id=1088

I was looking through sites and I think this guy brought up a good point.

I think some anime like Dragonball Z and Pokemon are generally looked down on by some anime fans because they're insanely popular (and when it becomes popular it isn't cool anymore) and are seen as just newbie or beginner anime. Someone in a review I read described it pretty well as an "I'm too good for this" attitude. Some even go as far to as to say that they're not "real anime". I personally think you can still enjoy those shows while acknowledging their faults.

So what do you think?

Raijin · Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:42 am Post subject:

Well, most people aren't so blunt about it, but yeah. It's a natural tendency for many people to have distaste for something relatively popular. I know I'm the type of guy who loathes the mainstream. Although I prefer to think about it as an attempt to maintain individuality rather than elitism.

Maybe it's different for some people, or maybe the only difference between an individualist and an elitist is the latter is more of an asshole about it. For instance, I'm not a big fan of DBZ or Pokemon either, but I don't go around bragging about it...wait...I think I just did.

Master Swordsman Zero · Darkloid Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 542 Location: Pekopon

Uhh... I could care less about the shows popularity, I just care if the show is good or not. I hate DBZ and Pokemon because I don't like them, not because it's too popular. I'm not into that "everything that is conformist is bad" ideal... If the anime is good, I'll watch it. It is simple as that. The only reason I lost most of my interest in Naruto is because I think it's turning out to be too much like DBZ, not because it's over-popular. His points may be true for some (I have noticed it to be like this), but not for everyone. It's all a matter of peers and opinions.
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Azureman.EXE · Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:14 pm Post subject:

I don't care about how popular the anime is. I just can't stand the people who say that DBZ or Naruto is the "Greatest anime eva !!!111one!".

My thoughts:

DBZ is an okay anime, though truthfully I only really liked it up until the end of the Saiyan series. I only kept watching to see how the whole thing ended. While it does make me laugh here and there, it's really more of a "Turn your brain off and watch" anime, and therefore not one I seriously reccommend for someone who is trying to get into anime.

Pokemon, while I admit I love the games and manga, the anime, especially the english version, isn't exactly the best thing under the sun. I've seen better, I've seen worse, that's all there is to that one.

I can't say anything about Naruto because I've never seen or read it.
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Unknown Neo · Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:25 pm Post subject:

I don't know if I can give a valid answer without using the words "Hot Topic" or "Trend Wh*res" So I'll just say some people don't like others liking what they like.
(If the first sentece is a little too mean or anything like that I'm sorry.)

HeatShadow · Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:45 pm Post subject:

Probably the reason why people hate "popular" shows like DBZ and Pokemon is because these are shows that started off great, but were then messed up when the producers decided to change the show to cater to the masses in order to make them more popular, i.e. easier for the casual fan to swallow.

Let me give Pokemon as a good example. I first started liking the show because the producers knew what to do with it; they took a known world and focused it in on the story of one person within this world. Now, of course, Ash's exploits have been benched in favor of having a "Pokemon of the week" setup, where each episode only serves to showcase an individual pokemon. While this does make it more appealing to the casual/younger fans, who seem to delight in this new setup, the change has placed a sour taste in the mouthes of those devoted fans like myself. I'm sure many others could name more anime which have suffered the same fate.

DBZ is slightly different, in that it was changed for reasons other than desire for popularity. It seems that, as the show got older, it's quality deteriorated. While Dragon Ball featured fighters and characters of all shapes and sizes, who all fought differently, the later sagas of DBZ and GT are filled with endless numbers of Super Saiyans and equally powerful enemies, all of whom fight mostly the same. Most fellow fans (or former fans as it usually is) cite the final sagas of GT as some of the worst stuff they've ever seen.

Overall, though, it's not that people dislike shows that ARE popular, it's shows that have been changed from their original forms in order to MAKE THEM more popular for the western audience.
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Pitchums · Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:40 pm Post subject:

I don't like Pokemon or DBZ, but it's never been a question of their popularity.

DBZ is to me, the soap opera of anime. I'm watching a DBZ MARATHON at my aunt's house(I don't have cable). It was like four or five episodes. They just keep jumping around from character to character, and whenever someone's going to get into a battle they have to talk for like TEN MINUTES BEFOREHAND! In the four or five episodes I saw I STILL had no idea where it was going, who was going to win, or what was going to happen. That is why I don't like it. Give me a plot that can be done within an episode, maybe two if need be. But complete an idea in a single episode; don't make me watch 20 of them.

And then there is Pokemon. This to me was okay in the beginning. But then it entered something that I call "Episode Formula". Episode Formula is what I call it when an anime becomes unoriginal. It's basically the same recycled plot in a different scenario. You might see a Gym Leader battle here or there, but between those you have the standard plot:

Ash & Co. Meet someone
Someone uses a specific type of Pokemon
Team Rocket shows up w/random plot applied to situation
Ash & Co. & Someone take team rocket on and win, glorifying some weak attack from some less-than-nothing Pokemon
Episode ends and Ash & Co hope to see someone again.

I mean, it was phun seeing all the different pokemon and all, but that just got old after a while.
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N2-0 Night · Gnihtemos od thgim I... Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 992

DBZ? I only liked it up until the end of the Vegeta arc. Afterwards, I saw a lot of it's bad points a lot of times, and gave up on the anime. The 2 most annoying bad points, in my opinion, is the VERY long "montage", and the fight scenes where no character animation was done whatsoever.

As for Pocket Monsters, it has some good episodes and bad episodes. It kind of got old for me, but I didn't stop liking it. Once in a while, I get hooked back.

To me, popularity of an anime never truly mattered to me. It's simply an "I like it" or an "I hate it" comment, end of story.
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Vanilla_Go_Rilla · Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:19 am Post subject:

I guess the appeal of a show as its plot develops into the later episodes all depends on the makers of the series and its fans. Initially a show probably tries to start out great with lots of plot development, while the writers still have plenty of great ideas dwelling in their minds, just waiting to come out. Then the show matures and the writers might run out of creativity, and then people start thinking, "Hey...this isn't what I first saw. This series is losing its touch," or something along those lines.

It all depends on what one's standards are when it comes to judging a series, I suppose. Generally, snob appeal and higher expectations come the longer a series has aired, and the more popular a series gets, the angrier its fans will become if the plot doesn't appeal nearly as much as it did early on, when expectations weren't so high.

All said and done, the article writer you mentioned demonstrates a plethora of logic that I have trouble finding any disagreement with.
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Blues_EXE128 · Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:23 pm Post subject:

I dislike DBZ because it's just a show about a group of fighters bitching about how they 'sense' some powerful being, but then they take steriods, and go sayien and kick the living shit out of that same being.

I dislike Naruto because it overglorifies 1337-ist characters that the common 'fan' defines as "cool" and "aw3s()m3". that kind of crap annoys me to no end, as there is some form of that in Rockman.EXE, with the annoying and weak-as-hell Forte.

I dislike Pocket Monsters because it's too bland and doesn't have a strong overall plot. 'Join Ash and his friends and pokemon as he trys to become the best pokemon master that ever lived'...that's very original, no?
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Master Swordsman Zero · Darkloid Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 542 Location: Pekopon

The Edge · Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:40 pm Post subject:

I don't get turned off of certain anime due to popularity. I get turned off due to bad dubs. Although, most of the time, I'll still watch the dub in question.

Pitchums · Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:42 pm Post subject:

Master Swordsman Zero · Darkloid Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 542 Location: Pekopon

I know, I was just being a smartass =P. But yeah, there are too many "Be the best" animes, now-a-days.
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Hardcore Hecxz · Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:08 pm Post subject:

You know I honestly don't care at all, my choice to like Naruto or Dragonball Z or whatever, if it brings me joy watching, or playing, or collecting, then by god i'll do it. It's their choice. I didn't know what Naruto was until I heard reviews of it and decided to download a few episodes of it, after watching it, i fell in love with all the elements it brought to the table. It's my taste and it's awesome in my eyes, that's how Anime fans should feel. If a anime brings you joy, then you should enjoy it, and not disown it cuz your best friend thinks it's stupid Razz

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Enzan Chaud · Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:22 pm Post subject:

I agree with Hardcore Hecxz! :O

Anyways, I do think that Dragon Ball Z was over done. However remember that all anime is considered soap opras. Especially near the border of this city.

I want to be the very best that no one ever was. I think that lyric speaks truth. Since all of these anime are geared towards kids, even Rockman, this shouldn't be a factor, as being the best you can be is a gear that helps kids to be more social and active. You also have to realize that these creators base these anime off of things THEY grew up, in turn this is how they kinda retell us the stories they grew up with.
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Horoko · Net Savior Joined: 23 Mar 2005 Posts: 164

Pocket Monsters has good shows and bad shows. It has some rocking opening and closing music though (Sokoni Soraga Arukara is simply beautiful)

Dragonball isn't that bad. It was stretched out way too far though, but it wasn't bad at all.

Wind · Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:25 am Post subject:

Master Swordsman Zero is right about one thing

its a matter of opinion

i used to like dbz.
then i keep on seeing the same saga over and over and over again then i really detested it.

all i watch now is bleach and tsubasa chronocles and naruto.

:d and ugh YUGioh gx.
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Viewtiful Starman · Puzzle Game Addict Age: 37 Joined: 14 Mar 2005 Posts: 708

That kind of anime elitism is annoying... but there's another type that annoys me even more.
Manga eletists.

While I agree that there are manga better than anime, the elitists claim that all anime based on a manga is instantly inferior to the original material and in some of the cases I've seen, will argue against people saying they like the anime version more, when the person was just saying that as an opinion,
acting as if their liking of the anime version is somehow wrong.
Luckily, they're at least more rare than the type you mentioned

Aaaaaaaaanyhow, far as I'm concerned if you like it, then you like it and if you don't like it then you don't but please at least have a reason beyond it being popular.

Nazne · Shukei - Hakuteiken Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 1133

About the Manga thing. Fmuh was animated before the manga series even ended, and so far appears to have completely turned away from the manga's path. It's still awesome, and I like both versions because of their different takes on the same characters and plotline.

In other case. I despise Yuugiou, Inuyasha, and DBZ, not because of their fanbase (though it has something to do with it :P) but because they all have so many episodes and sagas that it's hard to keep track of everything. Plus the characters aren't exactly memorable. I prefer FMuh for the exact opposite reason. :P

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