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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unlikely. Rockman has been beaten many times.

[spoil:a9285d38e3]Slur took out Colonel, Searchman, Blues, and Rockman out at the same time. Forte took her out in what? 20 seconds?[/spoil:a9285d38e3]

[spoil:a9285d38e3]Duo destroyed all the CF rangers(including R-Rockman) with one solitary strike. They never beat Duo, they just convinced him to go away.[/spoil:a9285d38e3]

[spoil:a9285d38e3]Rockman's two strongest forms actually required Forte. Forte gave Rockman Bug Style and ForteCrossRockman.[/spoil:a9285d38e3]

There is no way in hell that Rockman is the strongest Navi ever.
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Plantman
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rockman is hardly the 'strongest' by himself. He does have an incredible potential and he can always acquire 'that little bit of extra power to win a battle'.

But here's the knack, Rockman relies in others to add up to his own power. Much like Forte. Forte alone isn't all that powerful, he gains more power as time goes by through several instances:

Spoilers for Stream and the Movie ahead:

[spoil:4ae77b2551]He could only beat Slur after he absorved what was left of Nebula Gray. Before that, his power wasn't enough to defeat her, so he relied in absorving the power of other being to defeat Slur.[/spoil:4ae77b2551]

Rockman has been in the same way before, completely with his own 'base' power, he wouldn't be able to stand a fight against many enemies, consider the enemies he was never able to defeat being just Rockman. He does have the potential to get more power but from external sources.

If Rockman was the only 'good navi' in the world and he had no friends to lend their power to him, Rockman's enemies would have defeated him a long time ago.

Beast Spoilers ahead:
[spoil:4ae77b2551]Rockman's beast out form isn't developed by Rockman himself, Trill is the power that allows Rockman to Beast Out.[/spoil:4ae77b2551]

The real point isn't always to go straight to defeat the villian. But many times to focus in the relationships between characters, old and new. An animation it's not only about 'getting to the end' it's about what happens while you get to the end, the people you meet, the enemies you make and the friendships you can gather, it's about showing their lives going while 'a crisis' lurks in the background.
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Guernsey
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gray17 wrote:
And in addition to what other people have already pointed out how Rockman isn't as all powerful as the first post claimed, here's a cynical reason.

The series is created as a tie in to a line of video games. As long as new games in the series come out, and the anime is still popular, a new Rockman.exe series will be made loosely based on the latest game. The repetativeness that's complained about is due to the games themselves following the same basic pattern of "evil organization that generates a series of bosses for Rockman to fight to stop their crimes, some huge enemy as the final boss, with Wily or Regal the mastermind behind the organization."


And why is any other main villian besides Regal or Wily?! I know there are OK to some people but come on, there has to be more main villians besides Wily and Regal!
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Tachyon360
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I take it your natural language is Spanish, Plantman? FYI, it's absorb, not absorv.

As for Forte, he alone is extremely powerful. Unlike Rockman's Soul Unisons, which are temporary and depend on another Navi's indiviudal strengths, Forte assimilates what he absorbs. He absorbed a crapload of random bugs, [spoil:ec3ed8eaa3]Gospel[/spoil:ec3ed8eaa3], [spoil:ec3ed8eaa3]Nebula Grey[/spoil:ec3ed8eaa3], and [spoil:ec3ed8eaa3]Slur[/spoil:ec3ed8eaa3] and used them to build himself up, much like a predatory animal would in nature with its prey, but he's still the same Forte with no apparent cosmetic or personality differences.

Guernsey wrote:
And why is any other main villian besides Regal or Wily?! I know there are OK to some people but come on, there has to be more main villians besides Wily and Regal!
Well, in the games, there was Shuryou (though ultimately manipulated by Wily). As far as the anime goes, [spoil:ec3ed8eaa3]Tesla (Neo WWW)[/spoil:ec3ed8eaa3] serves as and evil mastermind, with [spoil:ec3ed8eaa3]Duo[/spoil:ec3ed8eaa3] being an autonomous überenemy. Dunno about the mangas.
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Kadmos




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still, whatever ultimate power Rocky has, Forte would (and likely always) be weaker than him.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your logic makes absolutely no sense at all. Rock has never beaten Forte. Forte has proven to be stronger than Rock on many occasions.

Yet you still claim to say he is better.
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Gray17
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kadmos wrote:
Still, whatever ultimate power Rocky has, Forte would (and likely always) be weaker than him.


Only because Rockman is the hero and as such the writers have to have him eventually win somehow. Leave it in terms of raw power, and Forte wins every time. Heck, in the series Rockman's never beaten Forte. Rockman never beat Slur, and [spoil:4485725555]Forte beat Slur. [/spoil:4485725555] Plenty of times another Navi has overpowered and defeated Rockman, leaving him alive only because his friends intervene. Also, when all is said and done in Stream, Rockman and Netto were not responsible for defeating any of the final villians.

The bottomline is that Rockman doesn't win because he's more powerful than anyone, he wins because he's pretty powerful, and very skilled, and he has numerous friends powerful and skilled in their own right backing him up.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not contantly continuing the series that I think is the problem.

It's that it doesn't have a lot of good ideas, where as the games do.

That's just my opinion though.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not like Forte has any reason to fight Rockman anymore since he learned that [spoil:1d74ba0c18]he can't absorb his ultimate program.[/spoil:1d74ba0c18] and Rock's enemy kill count in Stream was zero I believe. The enemies of the day were deleted by Netto using the CF power boost, or finished off by someone else, (Colonel, and Thunderman) Netto's wasn't so high either. Of the Neo WWW he beat [spoil:1d74ba0c18]Videoman and Flashman the weaker ones of the four. Beastman sucided himself and Meiru beat Desertman.[/spoil:1d74ba0c18] Of the ultimate bad guys he got none[spoil:1d74ba0c18] Dark Rockman was beaten by a combination of Slur and self destucting. Slur was beaten by Forte, Regal was killed by Duo, and Duo was turned away by Barrel[/spoil:1d74ba0c18] Even in the almighty form of R-Rockman all the other CF members seem more powerful than him. So Rockman isn't that great.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

T_T PEOPLES

Label your spoilers. PLEASE.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not like the next season is going to be called:

FORTE EXE

Of course it's going to be about Rockman, but it's not always his Battle Strength that wins. His Heart and friendship that make him prevail. Besides,

Axess Finale Spoilers:
[spoil:282f9c52f2]If R-Rock ever goes Full Synchro again, he'd pretty much beat anyone who challenged him.[/spoil:282f9c52f2]
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Megaman X
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really isent it the point that Megaman can beat most of the evil navis?And theres no way Rockman is stronger then Forte they never fought!Only in the games.Rockman is strong but Forte is well....ALL POWERFUL.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MOVIE SPOILERS

[spoil:9d39682493]Forte and Rock did fight. Rock got his ass handed to him and Colonel had to save him.[/spoil:9d39682493]
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay but here's another thing to consider: RockMan would easily outbeat Forte in terms of strongest of heart.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which means absolutely nothing, because brute force usually wins out in the end. Which brings it back to square 1: Rockman only ever wins because of the sheer number of his allies, and oftentimes, even that's not enough. He only gets so many friends because of friendliness and charisma.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly don't think this is going -anywhere-. In the end, Rockman is the hero of the series, it is going to be about him. He'll trigger new powers and abilities yes, but doesn't mean by raw power he's strongest. Forte's served his purpose so far, nothing else is to be debated about this 'Rock vs Forte' thing quite honestly in the anime.

Your original question was "what's the point of continuing the series?" Show off the new characters, promote the games, give Capcom and ShoPro profits for the merchandise that triggers from the anime, and ultimatedly, give people around the world 20-something minutes of watching some of their favorite characters seen a little deeper than what the games allows sometimes.

THAT is the point, basically, make more money off a franchise that has proven itself quite profitable.

You have two choices ultimatedly, either you keep watching the series, or you stop watching it. If you look past the 'actiony' parts of the series, you'll appreciate that basically each season has a different feeling. All the series that are actiony have a similar premise, a 'good' side, a 'bad' side, and fighting for one or the other to prevail. Again, what matters through the path towards the final confrontation is what really makes the 'essence' that makes one 'season' different from the other.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I would keep watching the series if it's going to continue later on.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is my last reply to my own topic. The reason why Goku is the most powerful warrior for all time in Dragonball is because he has a strong heart that guides him. All of his possible power he could have has never been unleashed. Both of these apply for Rocky, as well. So deal with it.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No... Rockman has an Operator who is the son of the creator of Navis that guides him.

I honestly don't think this is going anywhere... the real reason why Rock would have potential would depend on whatever the hell Yuu did to him and what situations Netto puts him in... not on himself alone, since he depends on someone else to survive. So in a sense... he doesn't have the power himself but he draws it from his bond with Netto. So... all of his possible power can only be released through his bond with Netto and other people...(much like the original Rockman) that's the one thing that seperates him from a godmodder like Goku... if a bond is broken, Rockman has no will to fight.
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Tachyon360
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kadmos wrote:
This is my last reply to my own topic. The reason why Goku is the most powerful warrior for all time in Dragonball is because he has a strong heart that guides him. All of his possible power he could have has never been unleashed. Both of these apply for Rocky, as well. So deal with it.
Dragonball Z is the the most brain-dead show I've ever had the misfortune of seeing. All they do is set off massive, earth-shattering explosions for a string of episodes, wait until someone dies, collect the Dragon Balls, and start the cycle all over again. That some overpowered main character becomes even more powerful with some nebulous moral principles means nothing.

Granted, Rockman.EXE isn't the most realistic show out there either, but it's nowhere near as blown out of proportion as DBZ. Rockman could easily be deleted, even with assistance from Netto, by any number of vastly more powerful enemies. The only reason he continues to survive is because he's the single most important character to the series, and because he's lucky enough to just be at the right place at the right time or get his butt rescued in the nick of time. So far as will and heart, there are many characters just as strongly willed as him, if not more so, yet they often find themselves in similar peril.

While Rockman's high moral standards, his will to protect those standards, and his bond with his operator is emphasized in some cases, the anime has shown time and time again that it only really makes a difference in battles where there's real danger and where the opponents are on roughly equal footing.

Instead of telling us to deal with Rockman being an indestructable testosterone-driven grunt because of some unrealistic link between morality and brute strength, why don't you deal with the fact that not every anime is like Dragonball Z?
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